TRANSCRIPT
Of
SENATOR MITCH FIFIELD
Sky News AM Agenda
Ashleigh Gillon & Senator Mark Arbib
1 December 2008
8:45am
E & OE
SUBJECTS: COAG, school funding, budget deficits, Julie Bishop
ASHLEIGH GILLON:
Welcome back to AM Agenda. Well politicians are back here in Canberra for what will be the final sitting week of the year. Joining me in the studio are the senators Mitch Fifield and Mark Arbib. Thank you both for your time.
SENATOR MITCH FIFIELD:
Good morning.
SENATOR MARK ARBIB:
Good morning.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib, can everything that needs to get done, get done in the next few days?
ARBIB:
Well certainly it can. There’s a lot on the agenda especially in terms of education and we saw we had a huge weekend in terms of COAG, extra money for our schools, extra money for our hospitals, that’s going to mean more doctors, more nurses into the health system. That’s going to mean disadvantaged schools get taken care of, an extra $1.1 billion there. More money for teachers and teacher training. It’s great. So I mean it is going to be a busy week, but it’s an important week because our education and health systems have been neglected for a long time and we’re taking action.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield, it looks like the Opposition is going to make it difficult for the Government to get at least one bill through to do with this school funding that Mark Arbib just mentioned. To do in particular with the independent school funding. What’s wrong with the deal the Government has struck with the states on this?
FIFIELD:
Well the independent schools bill, the schools assistance package, it’s got some fundamental flaws. The first is that it’s going to deny new non-government schools start-up grants. It also proposes that we have a situation where with a national curriculum you mightn’t be able to have International Baccalaureate courses, Montessori courses, Steiner courses and some special education courses. So that’s something that’s of great concern. We want to separate out those matters from the funding of the bill. I hope we don’t have a situation where Julia Gillard seeks to hold non-government school students hostage. We hope that they separate those two issues so that independent schools can get the funding that they need. But just picking up Mark’s comment on the COAG meeting at the weekend. Despite the hype of COAG it was just another COAG meeting throwing billions of dollars at state governments in the vain hope that they’ll improve hospitals and schools and roads and public transport. But these state Labor governments have shown time and again that they have an incredible capacity to squander billions of dollars for no particular benefit. And why on earth you would give $5 billion to the New South Wales Labor Government, rewarding incompetence and rewarding failure, why you’d do that I don’t know. Particularly when there’s no up front requirement for the state government to even change the way they manage their hospitals. But just back to education. The greatest indictment of the COAG conference was the admission that the computers in schools program was under funded, that there was a cost blow-out of $800 million. Now…
ARBIB:
This is typical of the Liberal Party though in terms of, this is old politics. This is ‘let’s blame the states. If we’ve got a problem in education, got a problem in health, rather than working together, working co-operatively, let’s just blame the state governments.’ And because of that we had neglect. Health funding went down 5% under 12 years of the Coalition. Education funding, everywhere in the OECD education funding was going up except our country where it was going down. They were the ones who neglected it and we are working with the states to try and solve the problem. And this is what voters want. They want cooperation not the blame game.
GILLON:
Senator Arbib, can I just get you though to respond specifically to what Mitch Fifield was saying there about this independent schools bill?
ARBIB:
Sure.
GILLON:
Can it be split in half do you think? Is that a way to get some of this funding at least to the schools by next year?
ARBIB:
It shouldn’t be split in half. I mean this is a huge reform package. Not just are we providing funding, we’re also talking about accountability and transparency of the government sector and the non-government sector. I mean the system needs it. Rupert Murdoch was recently saying in one of his lectures that we have a 19th Century education system and he’s right. After 12 years of the Coalition we do. We’ve got to get our education system into the 21st Century. And that means proper reporting, proper accountability and full transparency. Can I tell you, I’ve been speaking to the private and independent schools and they don’t have a problem with it. There’s one group in Victoria who do have a problem with this sort of transparency, the majority don’t. They want this bill to go through. They…
FIFIELD:
Well…
ARBIB:
…hang on, they support it. They want it through because they know in the end it’s the right thing to do. In fact what this is really about, this is about Christopher Pyne looking for relevance. There’s no doubt about it. He’s been losing every, week in week out to Julia Gillard and this is just about him, his own ego and the ego of Malcolm Turnbull. So if they block it…
FIFIELD:
Not at all.
ARBIB:
…you know, if they block it they are the ones who are holding the system to ransom.
FIFIELD:
There’s something that’s causing great concern to the independent schools sector, the proposal that they have to declare all private sources of funding. Now you’ve got to ask yourself the question, what’s the motivation behind the Government wanting that public declaration of private sources of funding? I think that there’s a bit of a suspicion, certainly amongst the independent schools sector, and also in the Opposition, that we’re seeing a little bit of the old politics of envy…
ARBIB:
Not at all. Not at all.
FIFIELD:
…and that we may see a return to the schools hit list. Otherwise why does the Government need to have that information publicly declared? You’ve got to ask yourself what the motive is.
GILLON:
Okay well as Senator Fifield has said, the Opposition does have some concerns about how this money in the COAG deal is going to be spent. But yesterday Wayne Swan was insisting this will stimulate the economy and create up to 133,000 jobs. Let’s have a look.
WAYNE SWAN:
There’s certainly is a weighting of money in the first year, but it is over a five year period, because if you’re going to get these lasting reforms, if you’re going to lift the productivity that we need in this economy, particularly given the ageing of the population and so on, we have to invest in our people, and you have to do that over a longer period of time. There’s no quick fix when it comes to the fundamental reforms that are needed. But fiscal stimulus is also an added benefit…
GILLON:
Senator Fifield, are you confident this deal can stimulate job growth in the short term at least?
FIFIELD:
Well let’s wait and see. We hope that it does lead to a growth in employment in Australia. But what is of great concern is how this government has managed the economy from the outset. That their budget back in May was predicated on unemployment rising. Bizarre. At a time when the global economy was slowing, this government put forward a budget which was predicated on rising unemployment, so we’ve now got a situation where the Government is seeking to alter its fiscal setting. We’ve seen that with the economic stimulus package, we’re seeing it with this COAG package. Obviously we hope that it does lead to an increased number of jobs.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib?
ARBIB:
Well we do have a global financial crisis though Mitch. Sorry…
GILLON:
I was going to say, one idea that’s been flagged is bringing forward tax cuts. Do you think that’s a real possibility?
ARBIB:
Well at the moment, I mean the Government has a huge stimulation program underway. You’ve got the $10.4 billion, and on December 8th you’ll see money going out to those disadvantaged groups. You’ve got money going to first home buyers in terms of the grants there. You’ve got the local government $300 million, on top of that…
GILLON:
But could tax cuts be another way to stimulate the economy, to bring them forward?
ARBIB:
Look I don’t know what’s been discussed at the cabinet level in terms of tax cuts or anything else. I’m not aware. But can I say, we have a major major program to stimulate the economy. We understand how large the problem is overseas and we’ve got to stay ahead of it. And I mean the COAG measures as well will provide, as you said, 133,000 jobs. So it’s going to stimulate jobs, help stimulate the economy in sectors that really need it. Education and health that have been lagging for so long.
GILLON:
Let’s just have a look at the politics of deficits here which of course really did dominate the political debate last week. I’m sure it will come up again in question time this week. Why is the Opposition continuing to say there’s no need for a deficit when so many of the country’s leading economists seem to be saying ‘yes, there is a need and it is in fact the responsible thing to do’?
ARBIB:
Every economist.
FIFIELD:
Because we’re taking the Government at its word. The Government says that the economy is growing and that it forecasts…
GILLON:
But do you know more about where the economy is going than these leading economists?
FIFIELD:
No no. All we can do is take the Government at its word. All we can do is accept the official forecasts. Now the forecasts are that the economy will continue to grow and in fact the economy is growing at the moment. In that circumstance there is no excuse for the Government to go into deficit. Now the mantra of this government, the mantra of the Coalition when we were in office, was that you should aim to maintain the budget in balance over the course of the economic cycle. Now that statement is predicated on the possibility of going into deficit should the economy go into recession. But we don’t have an economy in recession. We have an economy which is growing. We have an economy which is forecast to grow and in that circumstance the only reason you would go into deficit would be because of gross mismanagement of the budget. There is no need to have a deficit with a growing economy.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib nobody really…
ARBIB:
That’s not what Colin Barnett said yesterday though. I mean your own Premier in Western Australia, Liberal Party Premier said there may be a need, all states may need to go into deficit because they have falling revenue.
FIFIELD:
Well the budget position of Western Australia is very different to the budget position that this Government inherited. This Government inherited a budget with no debt, a budget with a surplus. A surplus which we created and which we passed across. So there’s a fundamental difference between the state of the Commonwealth finances and the state of the finances in the various state jurisdictions.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield mentioned before this idea of getting a surplus over the economic cycle and what a temporary deficit really means. It seems no one’s really defined what those two terms are. ‘Economic cycle’ and ‘temporary deficit.’ What time period are we looking at here?
ARBIB:
Well that’s the policy. But we haven’t gone that far forward because as Kevin Rudd said, at the moment there is no need.
GILLON:
So this is a moveable feast?
ARBIB:
Well no we’re having, at the moment we are talking about possible, possible scenarios depending on how bad the situation gets. See no one knows what’s going to happen over the next 6 to 12 months. No one knows how bad the international crisis will get. And the Prime Minister was saying that there might be a need to further stimulate the economy and that might mean borrowing so therefore you might have a temporary deficit. I think that he’s being honest, honest with the Australian people telling them that. In comparison you’ve got Malcolm Turnbull and the Coalition who I believe are being dishonest, dishonest with the Australian people and who are trying to play political games. Because for them it’s all about Malcolm Turnbull’s popularity, about the popularity of the Liberal Party rather than actually showing any leadership in a crisis and telling the Australian people what’s really going on out there. And it’s not just every economist, it’s every commentator. I mean everyone agrees that if the situation continues to deteriorate there will be a need for a further stimulus and that may mean temporary deficit. It’s just common sense.
GILLON:
Okay we are running out of time. Just another point I want to hit on. The Shadow Treasurer, Julie Bishop, has been out and about this morning denying she’s under pressure to leave her portfolio. Have there been rumblings in the Party about her performance?
FIFIELD:
No. Julie has a track record of success. She was a terrific education minister. She put the focus on standards in education…
GILLON:
But what about her performance now?
FIFIELD:
Yes, she put the focus on standards in education which this Government now belatedly is jumping on board. As Shadow Industrial Relations Minister she handled the very difficult issue of WorkChoices, how we position ourselves in relation to that in opposition. And now as Shadow Treasurer, she’s had that role for a couple of months, and during that time the likely Labor budget deficit has become the dominant federal issue and that’s in large part due to her prosecution of that issue.
GILLON:
Well after a couple of damning pieces in The Australian newspaper this weekend Julie Bishop, as part of her defence, has attacked the editor of The Australian newspaper, Chris Mitchell, also the political analyst Peter Van Onselen saying that he has an unhealthy obsession with her and that he is a stalker effectively, Ms Bishop has said this morning. Is that something which is a smart move do you think?
FIFIELD:
Oh look I think journalists have got pretty broad shoulders. I think that they can cope with a politician expressing a view on them just as politicians cope with journalists expressing their opinions.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib is sexism at play here? Is this an issue or not?
ARBIB:
Well I’m not sure but I do feel sorry for Julie Bishop. It’s her own side that are actually gunning for her. It’s her own side that are actually leaking against her. It’s not our side, it’s her side of the fence. And really in the end, she is just having to defend Malcolm Turnbull’s irresponsible economic position. That’s what’s really going on. She’s having to go out there and defend a position that is just dishonest. And she knows it. What Malcolm Turnbull is saying on the deficit, in terms of trying to say that we’re exaggerating the global crisis is dishonest and I think for her it’s just a hard sell.
GILLON:
We need to leave it there. Senators Mark Arbib and Mitch Fifield thanks for your time as always.
ENDS