TRANSCRIPT
Of
SENATOR MITCH FIFIELD
Sky News AM Agenda
Ashleigh Gillon & Senator Mark Arbib
16 February 2009
8.45 am
E & OE
SUBJECTS: Health Reform, Stimulus Package, Julie Bishop, Rudd Plagiarism
ASHLEIGH GILLON:
Welcome back to AM Agenda. Let’s go straight to our panel now. Joining me from Melbourne, the Liberal Senator Mitch Fifield, and from Sydney the Labor Senator Mark Arbib.
Good morning to you both. I want to start on reports about reforms to the health system. Today a draft report will be released by the Health Reform Commission, suggesting that the Government should be looking at taking over a range of primary healthcare services. I actually spoke with the Shadow Health Minister Peter Dutton a little bit earlier today on Sky News and he raised some serious doubts about the Government’s ability to deliver any such changes. Lets hear some of that.
PETER DUTTON, SHADOW HEALTH MINISTER:
Well the difficulty for the Government will be that at the last election they started with $20 billion in the bank so they sent forth this detail of to enquiries, off to commissions, off to all sorts of report-writers. And now that the detail is starting to come back, of course, the situation has changed dramatically. The Government now is in debt, or will be, for about $200 billion, and so that will restrict a lot of what they promised at the last election. Whether or not they are able to deliver it will be another thing.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib its all well and good to propose changes to the health system, but is there any money left to make any changes after the stimulus package passing last week?
MARK ARBIB:
Well the Government is committed $64 billion over five years to the health system, and that’s $20 billion more than what the Liberal Party put forward, and it is an important report coming forward today. I cant pre-empt what’s in the report or how that is going to be funded through the budget coming forward. But at the same time we’ve got to keep it in context. This has been 14 months of reform. The Government has actually focused on healthcare, focused on fixing our hospitals as we promised at the last election campaign, and we’re delivering. Last year we promised 25,000 extra procedures for surgery and we’ve delivered 35,000. In terms of fixing the shortage of healthcare professionals – $1.1 billion going to our doctors, to our nurses, to our specialists. And it goes on and on, I mean the Government is working hard preventative healthcare, $400 million. So this is a Government committed to healthcare, committed to fixing our hospitals, committed to working with the states through COAG. Compare this to the Coalition Tony Abbott admitted on the Today program that the Coalition ripped $1 billion, $1 billion out of the health system and really, they neglected it. They neglected hospitals and just blamed the states, so it’s very important the work we are doing.
GILLON:
A lot of the details of this draft report have been leaked to newspapers this morning. One of the other recommendations is setting up one stop health shops so that people can access a range of services, all in the one location. But isn’t that what the Government said it would already do with these GP Super-clinics? I understand, I think only one, is up and running so far though.
ARBIB:
Well I’ve read the same reports as you so we’ll have to wait and see what the report says when it comes out today. So I can’t pre-empt that. But yes we are committed to working towards GP Super-centres, and they will be an important part of the healthcare mix. And this is the real change and one of the big changes the Government has made is to really move towards preventative healthcare. So every dollar you spend actually saves you down the line in terms of hospital procedures. And it is important to remember that our healthcare system is under some huge, huge pressure because of the ageing population and also because of the increases in, the cost of medical technologies. So we are focused on that preventative healthcare centre, preventative healthcare, and GP Super-centres will be a big part of it.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield, is a Federal takeover of the public needed for standards to improve, is that a realistic option for the Government?
MITCH FIFIELD:
It’s very instructive what Mark said before. He said that there has been 14 months of reform. This Government considers a report that they’ve commissioned, producing a volume, to actually be reform. That’s typical of this Government. Kevin Rudd said before the last election that he could take over public health in Australia if the states didn’t get their acts together; in fact he said he would put a referendum to the next election if the states didn’t get their act together on health. So far there is no sign of the states improving public health. But what is very interesting from the report, which we read excerpts of in the papers today, is that we knew Kevin Rudd wanted to takeover the public health system, but what we didn’t know is that he wanted to socialise the system. Some of the reports this morning are saying that he’s going to be looking at a Scandinavian style national health system. Now, I for one don’t want to see a Scandinavian style national health system here, I don’t want to see a UK style national health system. Sure, our health system has some challenges, but one of its’ great strengths is that we have a mixed system, with a strong private health insurance system, a strong private hospital system and also a strong public hospital system. So I hope Kevin Rudd comes out today and declares that he has absolutely no intention of nationalising our health system because that would certainly be a step backwards.
ARBIB:
It’s quite unbelievable that Mitch would attack the Labor Government in terms of what we are doing on health and it has been 14 months of work Mitch, as I said, we have been working in terms of filling those skills shortages in terms of doctors, nurses and professionals – $1.1 billion, $750 million clearing out emergency departments, fixing that problem there. And also in terms of cutting the waiting times for surgery. That compared to the Coalition, which was, took a billion dollars out of hospitals and healthcare and neglected it completely, leaving it to the states, I mean remember the blame game, that was the way the Liberal Party dealt with health and hospitals just blame the states. We’re working with the states to try fix the problem.
FIFIELD:
Mark are you saying that the hospital system has been fixed, and that Kevin Rudd is no longer going to put a referendum at the next election to take over the public health system?
ARBIB:
No, I’m saying that there’s been a great deal of work over the 14 months, there is a lot more work to do there’s no doubt about it. But rather than having a, rather than just blaming the states, we’re working with the states to fix the problem, we’re spending the money – $64 billion over five years.
GILLON:
We have a range of issues to get through this morning. We do have only a limited time period. I’d like to just move on to the stimulus package now of course it was passed last Friday, we’re looking at the consequences not just for the economy but for the upcoming budget. The Government ensured us on the weekend that tax hikes won’t be introduced to try to pay for it. Here’s Lindsay Tanner saying that the debt Australia’s going into is manageable.
LINDSAY TANNER, FINANCE MINISTER:
We’ve still got a level that will be around 5% of our total economy, that’s like a person on $100,000 a year borrowing $5,000 sustainable. And that compares with the rest of the developed world which averages 45% and that average is rising rapidly. So this is entirely sustainable, we can handle it and it is necessary to defend and support jobs and economic activity.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield, are you as confident as the Finance Minister, do you think Australia is in a position to be able to handle this much debt?
FIFIELD:
I’m not confident at all; the Government have no plan to repay this debt. In the UEFO document, which they released with their plan for a stimulus, the debt repayment plan was two points. And I asked Ken Henry, the Secretary of Treasury, if they were merely aspirational statements, and he said “Oh, no, no Senator, it’s stronger than that, it a commitment.” Yet this Government can’t actually produce a plan about how this debt will be repaid. We received some very interesting evidence when we had our Senate inquiry into the spending spree Saul Eslake, Chief Economist from the ANZ Bank who is actually quite a supporter of the Government’s plan nevertheless said he thought that there was a very high likelihood that the Government would have to increase taxes to repay this debt. Now the Government can’t have it both ways they can’t take the bits of Saul Eslake and his evidence that they like and reject the bits that they don’t like. Saul Eslake, a very respected economist who, as I say, actually has some sympathy for the Government’s plan is at least honest enough to say that this plan will necessitate Government increasing taxes to pay down the debt burden. The debt burden which is the equivalent of $9,500 for every man, woman and child in Australia. Usually, when money is lent, the person who the money is lent to has a plan to repay it. Well this Government is going to be borrowing money, this Government is going to be someone who is receiving a loan, in effect, yet they have no plan to pay it back and Saul Eslake confirms what we’ve suspected that this Government is going to have to increase taxes to repay this money.
GILLON:
Senator Arbib, to pay off this debt in the meantime are we going to see other measures delayed in the May Budget for example, paid maternity leave is one that is being speculated about a lot?
ARBIB:
I heard yesterday Lindsay Tanner’s interview and he wouldn’t speculate in terms of the budget process, but what he did say was that this debt is manageable. And when you compare it to what’s going on overseas, when you compare it to the United States, when you compare it to the debts and deficits in Europe and remember, almost every country in the developed world is going into deficit to try to stimulate the economy as part of recommendations out of the IMF and the OECD. But what he did say as well is that there is a plan to actually deal with the debt. First off, tax revenues will increase, as the economy starts to pick up over the next two to three years. So hopefully we will see an increase in our tax revenues, because that’s been one of the real big problems the Government has faced with our trading partners going into recession, we’ve seen a big drop in terms of our tax revenues and company tax, so hopefully we’ll see a change in that. And secondly, the Government will also be prepared to take some tough decisions in terms of cutting waste. The last Budget, that was something the Government did, putting in place efficiency dividends, and that’s something that will probably be looked at in the future. But can I just say, going back to something Mitch said, the Liberal Party’s been extremely duplicitous in the way they deal with this deficit issue. They are running another scare campaign. The Liberal Party is very good at scare campaigns, Mitch you are very good at scare campaigns, because when you talk about the level of Government debt and the level of loans, I mean you look at it, Labor’s talking about $200 billion of loans, and when you add up all of the spending for the Coalition it adds up to $180 billion, so its only a $20 billion difference. Now that’s all, and when you measure it…hang on a sec…hang on a sec Mitch…when you measure that down per person…you’re claiming its
FIFIELD:
We would have had a very different starting point
ARBIB:
Hang on Mitch…per person…you’re claiming its $9,000 under us. Well under you that would be $8,300…
GILLON:
We’re running out of time, I really do need to move on, Senator Fifield…
FIFIELD:
We would have been in a very different situation, if we’d won the last election. This is your starting point, not our starting point.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield we do need to move on here, I want to talk about Julie Bishop. There’s been a lot of speculation for some time now that she won’t last in the Shadow Treasury portfolio until the next election. Over the weekend the speculation reached fever-pitch. Do you think she is doing a good job and is there discontent in the party about her performance?
FIFIELD:
I think a lot of people need to take a deep breath, have a cup of tea and a good lie down. The latest flurry of excitement has been generated by the Sunday newspaper reports. Julie isn’t going anywhere. Julie is going to stay the Deputy Leader of the Party, she is going to stay as Shadow Treasurer. After Leader of the Opposition, Shadow Treasurer is one of the most difficult jobs, probably the second most difficult job there is. All of us have some days that are better than others, but Julie is working extremely hard, she’s ceaseless, she is very clever. I think the person we should be talking about today is Kevin Rudd, who on the front page of The Australian today has been confirmed as a plagiarist, he is Professor Google.
GILLON:
That’s actually something I wanted to raise with you, Mitch Fifield. We do know of course one of Julie Bishop’s blunders involved claims of plagiarism, today as Mitch Fifield said, Kevin Rudd’s been accused of plagiarising quotes in the essay he wrote in the last couple of weeks about economic philosophies, Mark Arbib, this is something that is pretty embarrassing for the Prime Minister isn’t it?
ARBIB:
Not at all, I mean this was an 8000 word essay you’ve got to understand over the last week in the Senate the Liberal Party has been absolutely obsessed by this essay. Speech after speech after speech on this essay, they’ve now gone through it with a fine tooth comb, but they’ve made a mistake, because the two quotes are President Sarkozy and one by I think by the Chinese Vice-Premier had been cited, and its not just in this article, they’ve been cited globally in articles across broadsheets, across economic magazines. They are two very important quotes, and very important to the debate, that has been taking place around the world in terms of global capital. But can I just return to the Julie Bishop issue for a sec…
GILLON:
But Senator Arbib, Mr Rudd’s used exactly the same examples, quoting those world leaders, as the Foreign Affairs article. It’s exactly the same. There’s one word changed.
ARBIB:
But as I said, those quotes have been cited, both here and overseas…
FIFIELD:
Fess up Mark, he’s been pinged, he’s a plagiarist.
ARBIB:
But Mitch can I just take you back a second, it was a nice deflection away from Julie Bishop for a second, but what this actually shows the Julie Bishop issue is that while the Government is working towards protecting jobs look at the stimulus package what the Coalition is interested in is their own jobs…
CROSSTALK
FIFIELD:
He boasted that this is his own work…
GILLON:
Gentlemen we have run out of time. We are going to hear a lot more about both of these issues today, no doubt about it. Senators Mark Arbib and Mitch Fifield, thanks for your time.
FIFIELD:
Thank you.
ARBIB:
Thank you.
ENDS