Transcript of
Senator Mitch Fifield
Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for
Disabilities, Carers and the Voluntary Sector
Sky News AM Agenda
Ashleigh Gillon & Senator Mark Arbib
16 March 2009
8.45 am
E & OE
SUBJECTS: migration reduction, ETS, industrial relations, Malcolm Turnbull, Queensland Election, Pauline Hanson
ASHLEIGH GILLON:
Welcome back to AM Agenda. Joining me in here in the studio is the Labor Senator Mark Arbib and Liberal Senator Mitch Fifield. Good morning to you both.
MARK ARBIB:
Morning.
MITCH FIFIELD:
Good morning Ashleigh.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield let’s start with you. We’ll get you to respond to what Chris Evans just had to say in that interview about migration levels and needs for cuts. Would the opposition like that to go further in the May budget?
FIFIELD:
Well this is a review we’ve been calling for since last year, I remember Malcolm Turnbull being on the Alan Jones program asking for a review. Sharman Stone has been consistent in saying that this needs to be reviewed in light of rising unemployment and a slowing economy. So it’s good that it has been reviewed. It should have happened beforehand. But the message that this sends is that the Government is strongly of the belief that unemployment is going to increase significantly. Now we don’t know just how high it is going to go, the Government hasn’t been clear with us and the Australian public and that’s what the Government needs to do to actually share all the information with us, to tell the Australian people just how high they think unemployment is going to go.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib?
ARBIB:
Well we’ve already seen the Treasury predictions, 7%, that’s all we can go by. You’ll see the next lot of predictions come out with the May budget. So we have to wait for that. But in terms of unemployment obviously this is the major focus of the Government fighting unemployment. Today we heard from the Minister. He’s pulling one lever, to restrict immigration, it is a sensible decision, it is a moderate decision, to actually ensure that Australian’s get access to work, but it is not the only thing we are doing. The main focus obviously is the stimulus package, $42 billion being rolled out, you’ve seen the first stimulus payments going out into the community. Emergency payments just to get that money into the shops. So people can keep employees at work. But the next round starts rolling out almost immediately, and that’s infrastructure. Two-thirds of the stimulus package is actually in infrastructure, that means we are going to be building rail-lines, roads, schools, this is going to…
FIFIELD:
No new roads, no new rail-lines…
ARBIB:
This is going to keep people employed…
GILLON:
Senator Arbib, can I just ask you, the Minister pointed out clearly that these migration changes have been as a direct result of the economic downturn, trying to protect jobs. If the Government is willing to reconsider and rework policies like that, why won’t it seemingly be open to reworking ETS policy, IR laws, unfair dismissal claims and things like that as well?
ARBIB:
Because we think we’ve got the balance right. In terms of our work laws we’re providing flexibility for employers at the same time providing fairness for employees. In terms of climate change, we’ve found a balance, right in the middle, and you have to remember we are getting attacked by big business on one side and green groups on the other side, because we have found a balance. And these are long term problems that we need to fix. Climate change is something that is not going to go away, and the economic cost of not dealing with climate change now will be felt for decades and generations to come. We are doing the responsible thing on climate change. In terms of Workchoices, we went into the last election and we said we would take action. To get rid of Workchoices, and the Government, the Australians voted for it. We are doing what we promised to do, the Coalition is once again, reverting to form, going back to Workchoices.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield lets look at a couple of those points, ETS and IR. Firstly on IR, is the opposition any clearer as to whether it will vote against the Fair Work bill if the Government ignores its amendments?
FIFIELD:
Our position is crystal clear. The Government is putting forward an industrial relations package which will lead to increased unemployment. What we’ve put forward are six points that we think will lead to a situation where this bill, this legislation will destroy fewer jobs than would be the case…
GILLON:
Will you vote against the bill if those points are ignored?
FIFIELD:
I am strongly of the view that if the Government isn’t reasonable, if the Government doesn’t negotiate and they are showing no sign of negotiating if they don’t amend their package along the lines we’ve suggested, then it would be irresponsible to support legislation which would destroy jobs.
GILLON:
You seem to be taking a bit of a tougher stance on this than the Opposition Leader.
FIFIELD:
No, we are all very much on the same page. We recognise that this legislation…
GILLON:
So you are expecting Malcolm Turnbull to vote against this package?
FIFIELD:
We recognise that this legislation is going to destroy jobs. What we are putting forward with our six-point amendment plan are measures that will see this legislation destroy fewer jobs than would otherwise be the case. And I think that Mark is on to something when he says they’ve achieved balance, they sure have. On the one hand they’ve got a stimulus package which is supposedly going to underpin employment. On the other hand, whatever benefit might come from that stimulus package is going to be completely counteracted by their industrial relations legislation and by their ETS policy. So they are right, they’ve got balance, one lot of policies completely counteracts the other…
GILLON:
Mark Arbib…we need to let him have a say…
ARBIB:
Well we’ve heard it first, right here, Workchoices is not dead. Workchoices is back, Mitch has said it right now, they are going to vote against the legislation, it doesn’t matter about what we do, they are going to vote against it because in the end they are reverting to form, it’s in their DNA, it’s something they believe in. Mitch has been calling for months. Let’s get back to Workchoices. When Peter Costello was asked, what is your solution to the global recession, what would you do differently? All he could come up with was going back to Workchoices, and we are hearing it again…
FIFIELD:
No, no, not at all…that’s a complete misrepresentation of our position…
ARBIB:
So I say in this debate, we will see the true colours of the Liberal Party…you’ve posted today, you’ve put up the flag, and lets see if Malcolm follows it
FIFIELD:
A complete misrepresentation…
GILLON:
It does seem like this stance, there has been quite a turnaround, Malcolm Turnbull seemed to acknowledge just a few months ago, the Government had a mandate, even in terms of these unfair dismissal laws, which now the Opposition seems so firmly against.
FIFIELD:
We will let Labor’s legislation through, if they make these six amendments. It’s not an unreasonable thing. Now Julia Gillard says she’s happy…
GILLON:
But these changes were flagged before the last election, yes?
FIFIELD:
Julia Gillard said that she’s happy to negotiate, as long as we agree with her. Now that’s not negotiation. We’ve said that we will let this legislation through, if these six, very modest, very reasonable, amendments are made. We think that they make a lot of sense. It’s going to stop unions exercising too much power. It’s going to deny unions the right to just barge into any workplace. It’s going to deny unions the right to look at non-union members records, and I think Steve Fielding was spot on when he said that he thought this legislation basically allows for union cops to storm into workplaces. Now we don’t think that is reasonable. Even the Australian Industry Group, who are hardly big fans and supporters of the Opposition in recent times, even they are saying that this legislation goes too far, the Government should pull it back to what they said at the election. This legislation goes well beyond what the Government undertook at the last election. And that’s all we are asking for, for the Government to be reasonable, for the Government to negotiate and for the Government to look at the six points that we are putting forward. That’s not an embrace of Workchoices. What that is, is holding the Government to account, saying to the Government actually look at what you committed to at the election and not more.
GILLON:
I just want to ask about the Emissions Trading Scheme, this is another big issue that we are going to see more on of course in next few weeks, but Malcolm Turnbull over the weekend signalled that the Opposition will vote against this. It doesn’t really come as a surprise but it now seems that it is very unlikely that the Government is going to get this through. The Greens also saying they would rather vote against this ETS than for what they say is a flawed ETS.
ARBIB:
There is still a long way to go. We’ve got some Senate enquiries to go through. So there is a process in place, but it is going to be difficult, there’s no doubt about it, and its going to take a lot of negotiation.
GILLON:
It seems impossible at this stage.
ARBIB:
It’s not impossible, there’s a lot of negotiations to get through and we will be talking constructively to the Greens and obviously to the independents. But on the Emissions Trading Scheme, Malcolm Turnbull used to be a true believer on Emissions Trading Scheme. When he was running at the last election, running for Wentworth, he was “ETS, ETS, it’s the centrepiece of fighting climate change.” Now, given the pressure he’s been under in his own caucus, he’s folded. I mean Mitch you’ve, you and Peter Costello…
GILLON:
Is Malcolm Turnbull trying to prove he’s a real Liberal, as one of the papers suggested on the weekend?
ARBIB:
You’ve had a big win Mitch.
FIFIELD:
Malcolm supported an ETS when he was Environment Minister, he still supports an ETS. But he wants to see an ETS which gets it right. There is no need to have a mad rush, it can wait until 2012, and Malcolm wants to see a situation where we have a set of policies which actually achieve the stated objective of reducing greenhouse emissions. That’s what we want to do. And if you can reduced greenhouse emissions by more than the Government is intending to, and do it at less cost to the economy, then why wouldn’t you look at that? And that’s what Malcolm is putting forward. An ETS isn’t the entire answer, but it is part of the answer. Malcolm has put forward some other measures in his Green Carbon Initiative, which will also see further reductions. But the important thing is not to get an ETS, the important thing is to get it right, and that’s what we think the Government should be doing. Take the time to get it right.
GILLON:
Some analysts and commentators have suggested that Malcolm Turnbull is toughening up his stance on IR, on the ETS all in the leadership context. That Peter Costello is sitting up on the backbench with these very strong views and Malcolm Turnbull is trying to appear as strong if not stronger to try to counteract that. This weekend we saw a poll in one of the weekend newspapers that 28 out of 66 Liberal MPs are backing Mr Costello compared with only 21 expressing their support for Mr Turnbull. Is that the sort of idea that you have of numbers in the Party at the moment?
FIFIELD:
That’s ridiculous. No one is looking at anything of that nature at all. Malcolm is the leader. He was elected in the ballot. End of story.
GILLON:
Well it’s not really the end of the story Mitch Fifield, I know you would like it to be the end of the story, but the speculation is continuing. It’s getting tiresome for all of us, we’d all agree, but it is something that seems to be destabilising the party, and you have so many people openly expressing their support for Mr Costello to journalists ringing them around for an opinion poll, its not a good sign.
FIFIELD:
Well I never take part in pop quizzes or journalistic surveys, but we’ve got the clear situation where, as was indicated the day after the election, Peter Costello wasn’t available for the leadership. That’s been confirmed at two subsequent leadership ballots. It remains the case. Malcolm is our leader. He’s doing the job of keeping Kevin Rudd to account. He’s doing the job of keeping the focus on employment. He’s doing the job of making clear that Labor have policies in the ETS and industrial relations which are going to see jobs destroyed. We don’t think jobs should be destroyed. We think the Government should revisit the ETS, they should revisit their Industrial relations policy and take some steps to ensure in this economic environment that we do everything we can to support jobs.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib are Labor’s campaign tacticians preparing to go to the next election against Peter Costello over Malcolm Turnbull?
ARBIB:
No not at all. Malcolm Turnbull is the leader that’s who we are facing, that’s who we are preparing for. In the end, to me, and I think to most people in the Labor Party, it doesn’t matter whether its Peter Costello, it doesn’t matter whether it is Malcolm Turnbull.
GILLON:
Well if it doesn’t matter why does the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, the Finance Minister make such an attempt at targeting Peter Costello last week in question time?
ARBIB:
Well what I am talking about is policy, because in the end the policies are the same between the two men. I mean Peter Costello supports Workchoices, now Malcolm Turnbull supports Workchoices, Peter Costello says we shouldn’t act on climate change, now Malcolm Turnbull says we shouldn’t act on climate change. Both the same positions. In the end it is the ideology that is the problem in the Liberal Party. It’s their policies that are the problem, and until they get back to finding the solutions to the problems going forward then really there’s not going to be a change. So it doesn’t matter whether it’s going to be Malcolm Turnbull or Peter Costello they’re both the same in my books. And from Mitch’s perspective, there is a huge, huge debate going on in the Liberal Party caucus, and the reason why Malcolm Turnbull is moving further to the right, pushing aside his views on climate change, pushing aside his views on Workchoices, is because he is a total opportunist, he’s worried about his short term political survival, rather than the national interest, and that is a fact. We know it, you cant deny it, and certainly that’s what we are seeing day by day.
FIFIELD:
I deny it.
ARBIB:
Are you one of the 28 who supported Costello?
GILLON:
I don’t think Mitch is going to get into this on the program, unfortunately for us. We did see both Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull show up in Queensland yesterday to launch the respective campaigns, for the Queensland election this weekend. Mitch Fifield how reflective will that result be on the Federal state of politics at the moment.
FIFIELD:
It’s a long term Labor Government, the predominant factors in the campaign are state. It is a government that has run out of ideas, it is a government that can’t even manage a clean up of an oil spill…
GILLON:
So if Lawrence Springborg does win this election we aren’t going to see this is a reflection of Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership?
FIFIELD:
Well it is predominantly going to be determined on state factors, but at the same time this is Kevin Rudd’s home state. It’s Wayne Swan’s home state. So you would think that Kevin Swan, sorry, Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan would give a bit of a lift to the Queensland Labor Party. That there would be a bit of home town support for Kevin’s and Wayne’s team. So although it will be predominantly on state factors, I’d be pretty disappointed if I was a Queensland Prime Minister with a Queensland Treasurer to have a bad result there. I think I’d take it to heart.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib what’s your take on that?
ARBIB:
Well Mitch is right it is going to be on state issues. And that’s what the campaign is being fought on, I mean the only time you’ve seen Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull has been at the campaign launches, and that’s just usual that the Federal Leaders turn up to launches. They haven’t been involved in the campaigns otherwise. The truth is and the polling has been showing this is going to be an extremely close election. At the moment Lawrence Springborg and the LNP are in front, so we are going to see a big swing to the Coalition, there’s no doubt now. The Coalition is going to pick up a number of seats, whether they can pick up enough to win is the question. Queensland is experiencing the full brunt of the global recession; their major exports to China, India and obviously Japan have pretty much fallen through the floor. They are suffering at the end of the mining boom and it’s a very difficult election. This is a long term Government asking for a fifth successive term; it is always going to be hard. But in the end where this campaign is going now is back onto jobs, because on one side you’ve got Anna Bligh, the Premier, saying she will create 100,000 jobs, stimulate the economy, building infrastructure…
FIFIELD:
Where are they going to come from?
ARBIB:
And Lawrence Springborg cutting 12,000 jobs.
GILLON:
Ok we are running out of time, just finally, though, those nude photographs we saw of Pauline Hanson or perhaps not of Pauline Hanson. She’s now denying those photographs of her splashed over newspapers and the news all weekend. She’s now looking at her legal options. David Oldfield said something interesting yesterday though, he said that these sorts of photos could actually help her campaign, portraying her as a victim. Mark Arbib you are seen to be one of the campaign guru’s behind Labor’s election win last year, is this something that I mean as a woman this seems like something ridiculous, I mean no woman would want to see these sorts of photos and wouldn’t think they would help her campaign at all, but what’s your take on it?
ARBIB:
Yeah I would doubt that very much, she or someone in her campaign would do that. I think it is something which is really unfortunate, no one likes to see it, I didn’t like seeing it on the front page of the newspaper and I’m sure she doesn’t like seeing it either. She’s got a family, and hopefully this will just go away and we can get back to the real issues of the campaign.
GILLON:
Mitch Fifield, final word?
FIFIELD:
I don’t like anything that draws attention to Pauline Hanson. She was a negative and destructive influence in Federal Parliament and I’d hope that she enjoys no success in this election.
GILLON:
Ok, Senators Mitch Fifield and Mark Arbib thanks for your time again.
ENDS