Transcript of
Senator Mitch Fifield
Shadow Parliamentary Secretary
for Disabilities, Carers and the Voluntary Sector
Sky News AM Agenda
Kieran Gilbert and the Hon Alan Griffin MP
2 November 2009
8:30am
E & OE
Subjects: MYEFO, Interest rates, asylum seekers, Costello appointment
KIERAN GILBERT:
Good morning and welcome to AM Agenda. Today on the program, the economy’s official report card. Today Treasurer Wayne Swan is expected to confirm what the Reserve Bank and many other economists have been telling us now for weeks: that the economy is rebounding stronger, much stronger, than anyone had anticipated. Treasurer Swan, when he releases the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook later today here in Canberra, is expected to revise up the growth forecasts and revise down the anticipated debt and deficit as well as the forecast for unemployment. Joining me this morning on AM Agenda to discuss this and the other matters of the day, the Veterans Affairs Minister Alan Griffin, good morning Alan.
ALAN GRIFFIN:
Morning Kieran.
GILBERT:
And from Melbourne, Liberal frontbencher, Senator Mitch Fifield. Mitch, good to see you, I want to start with you first of all. The Coalition has been making a lot of the level of debt and deficit, much of your political attack is centred on that. If this mid-year confirms that that debt and deficit is nowhere near as big as first feared, that will diminish your attack won’t it?
MITCH FIFIELD:
Not at all Kieran. Can I say in relation to the MYEFO, what a surprise. I hope you detect my sarcasm there. This was entirely predictable. This Government’s whole economic and political strategy has been based on talking the Australian economy down and lowering expectations. Lowering expectations to a point where they would be easily exceeded. This Government’s plan was to rely on conservative Treasury forecasts so that at MYEFO, they can say ‘look, what a surprise, lo and behold, growth is higher than forecast, unemployment is lower than forecast, debt and deficit are lower than forecast and the economy is growing well and revenues are stronger than forecast,’ and let me make this prediction Kieran, at Budget the figures will be better again. This was the whole plan and no doubt the Government will say that this is all because of their brilliant economic management, because of their fiscal stimulus. The reality is, apart from the devaluation of the Australian dollar in 2008 and trade with China, the main reason why the economy has fared better is because of the Reserve Bank’s cut to cash rates. That has been the big boost to the economy. And if this Government had spent less on the fiscal stimulus there would have been more room for the Reserve Bank to cut rates and we would have had a stimulus without the level of debt.
GILBERT:
Alan Griffin, the Treasurer is expected, as we say, to show and forecast a rosier picture. What is your response to Mitch, though, that things could have been better?
GRIFFIN:
Well I think the Government has had a plan to work through the issues we’re dealing with economically. We’ve focused on the need to stimulate the economy in the areas that matter, and we’ve worked to that plan over time. The forecasts today, and all going well, are expected to be more positive than what they were, frankly that’s been because of the work that’s been done. I think it’s sad Mitch that you are focusing on bad news in a situation, when in fact this is generally going to be, we hope, good news. But there is still more to do and we are not out of the woods completely yet.
GILBERT:
Mitch is it rich for you to suggest the government should get no credit here given the rest of the developed world has struggled so noticeably through this downturn and Australia has pulled through remarkably well?
FIFIELD:
Well the rest of the developed world didn’t start with Australia’s strong budget position, which is entirely because of the Coalition balancing the budget and repaying Labor’s $96 billion of debt and leaving Australia with a strong asset position. The Coalition also left this Government with a world class prudential regulatory system. Again, that is no credit to this Government. So we had a much, much better starting point than the rest of the world. On top of that we had strong terms of trade with China. The Australian dollar devaluated in 2008 which was of assistance. And the big stimulus to the economy was the cut in cash rates by the Reserve Bank. And as I said before, if this Government hadn’t been so reckless in its expenditure, there would have actually been further room for the Reserve Bank to cut rates, and in fact what we are now seeing is the Reserve Bank having to increase interest rates because this Government isn’t winding back that fiscal stimulus fast enough. It was too big in the first place, and they are being too slow in winding it back.
GILBERT:
The Liberal Leader Malcolm Turnbull, your leader, Mitch, Malcolm Turnbull yesterday had a similar message. Let’s here what he had to say on the Ten Network.
OPPOSITION LEADER MALCOLM TURNBULL:
But they went hell for leather and threw an enormous amount of money very wastefully at the economy, our economy has proved to be more resilient and stronger than they anticipated and as a consequence we now have fiscal policy, the Government’s spending policies, working against the monetary policy, the interest rate policy of the Reserve Bank. That is one of the reasons why rates are going up. Home buyers who are feeling the squeeze can thank Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan.
GILBERT:
And that argument Alan, is going to get more and more traction. We are going to see a Melbourne Cup day rate rise tomorrow, well that is the general expectation, its going to be a tough one for you to balance, this one, isn’t it, when things are looking better, you don’t really want to raise the rhetoric too much, otherwise people, as Mitch has been saying, will put the blame on you for the rising rates.
GRIFFIN:
Well I think we have got to remember Kieran that rates are at record lows, and at lows that we’ve never seen before. And they are still four per cent lower than what they were at their peak last year. So I think people expected there would be some corrections over time.
GILBERT:
But does the Government need to be careful with its language right now, when things are looking better, not to over-talk it in some respects, because then your rhetoric will be seen to be putting upward pressure on rates as well?
GRIFFIN:
I think the Government has always got to be careful because we are in charge and we’ve got a job to do. The fact is that job is being done. There is a lot that can happen and a lot that will happen in the years ahead with respect to how we are going through this crisis. There are good signs now, but we shouldn’t be overconfident.
INTERVIEW WITH RESOURCES MINISTER MARTIN FERGUSON
GILBERT:
Welcome back to AM Agenda, with me Liberal frontbencher Senator Mitch Fifield and Labor Minister Alan Griffin. Alan I want to look at the issue of asylum seekers. Some onboard the Oceanic Viking are now threatening to kill themselves if they are not brought to Australia. This does seem to be a very difficult stalemate that the Government’s dealing with. How do you resolve it?
GRIFFIN:
Well you take time and you work through the issues. And I think publicly speculating about what might happen isn’t going to help. We’ve got some very competent people over there looking after our national interest and ensuring that a humane approach is taken, but this is a very difficult situation.
GILBERT:
But, I mean, these people are reportedly threatening to kill themselves according to the ABC, it obviously has been a sensitive situation right throughout but this is not a good development at all.
GRIFFIN:
Well it’s certainly very tense for those involved. But the Government’s committed to working through the issues with the Indonesian authorities and with those on board the Oceanic Viking and it is going to take some time but we have to give it that time.
GILBERT:
But how long can the Government wait. These people sitting on the boat off the Indonesian coast, just waiting.
GRIFFIN:
Well I think we have to work through those issues and I don’t think we should be putting false timelines on it now.
GILBERT:
Ok. The Foreign Minister Stephen Smith was on the Nine network yesterday, he was asked about reports at the weekend that these asylum seekers has indeed been in Indonesia for a number of years. Let’s here what Mr Smith had to say.
FOREIGN MINISTER STEPHEN SMITH:
That may or may not be the case. That is best determined by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees and it’s another reason, another argument if you like, why the asylum seekers on board should follow the advice they’ve been receiving from our officers on the Oceanic Viking and that is to calmly and peacefully and peaceably walk off the ship and allow that processing, that consideration, to start.
GILBERT:
Mitch Fifield we are now hearing reports of a boat that had 40 people on board has sunk on the Cocos Islands, a number of people rescued, this is an ongoing situation and these people, it’s understood, not confirmed yet, but could be asylum seekers. It just shows, it highlights the perilous nature of this journey by boat, doesn’t it?
FIFIELD:
Well that is right and obviously we hope that all of those who are in the water are safely rescued and are got to safety. We don’t know what the circumstance of this particular vessel is, so we should just put that to one side. But what we do know is that this Government’s language, both before the election and after the election, and this Government’s change of policy, has given people smugglers a good product to sell, and that’s what the people smugglers are doing. And we’ve seen since August of last year, something of the order of 40 boats, more than 2,000 people coming on these people smuggling vessels. This is a huge mess. And it is a huge mess of this Government’s making. The Oceanic Viking is sitting there off the coast of Indonesia. The Government is paralysed. They don’t know what do to. It is a direct result of their policies that these people smuggling vessels are coming. Sadly the Government can’t bring themselves to admit that they’ve actually got the policy wrong. They keep talking about push factors, which have always been with us. But they won’t accept the responsibility that their policies have failed, and that their policies are encouraging people smuggling vessels to come. It is time for the Government to admit they have got it wrong and to have a proper inquiry. And if they do have that proper inquiry, what it will tell them is that their language has softened, and that has encouraged people smugglers, and that their policies have changed, and that has encouraged people smugglers.
GILBERT:
Alan Griffin, as I mentioned to Mitch there is that report of the boat that sunk in the Cocos Islands. What is the Government know about this? Are they asylum seekers on board?
GRIFFIN:
I haven’t got any details on it Kieran, I know that Australian authorities are actively involved in a search and rescue mission with respect to that and I understand more details will be released as they become available.
GILBERT:
So no confirmation yet, obviously an ongoing situation, rescues have just been carried out as we understand it, but still an ongoing situation. But I suppose if it is true and this boat is sunk, it just highlights the perilous nature of all of this?
GRIFFIN:
Well it is a very sensitive issue and we are dealing with an issue which is not new, it’s been happening for years, it ebbs and flows in terms of the numbers involved, but again but in terms of Mitch’s situation, what’s the policy of the Opposition with respect to this, Mitch? I mean you guys are saying we’re wrong, that the policies we’ve implemented haven’t worked, and yet you haven’t got any policies yourself.
FIFIELD:
Well it’s a problem which you guys have created, and it is your responsibility to solve it. When we were in Government, we were faced with a particular set of circumstances. We had policies that addressed that. And the boats stopped coming. Now it is your turn. You are the Government. You’ve created this problem. You’ve got to find the solution.
GRIFFIN:
So you are going back to TPVs and the Pacific Solution, is that it?
FIFIELD:
Well I have a personal disposition, and I think a number of colleagues do, towards TPVs as one element of a possible solution. But we are going to look at a range of options in our policy development process. But the fact is, we are not the Government. You are the Government. You’ve created this situation. It is your job to fix it.
GILBERT:
Ok, one final issue to finish on. Peter Costello, the former Treasurer, has been appointed to the Future Fund by the Rudd Government. Malcolm Turnbull the Liberal Leader this morning was on radio 2GB in Sydney, and he said in that interview quote, “the Prime Minister is full of it”, let’s hear what he had to say.
OPPOSITION LEADER MALCOLM TURNBULL:
Well I think it is a very good appointment, as I said yesterday, but it just exposes the complete hypocrisy of Kevin Rudd. He ranted and raved in the most venomous terms about neoliberal extremism and the evils of the Howard Government and Peter Costello’s dreadful crimes as treasurer. He said there was 30 years of neoliberal extremism that undermined the Australian economy, indeed the global economy, and here he is putting the number one ticket holder in the neoliberal free market extremist association onto the Future Fund.
GILBERT:
Malcolm Turnbull there having a go at Kevin Rudd. And Alan Griffin, Paul Keating, the former Labor Prime Minister says Peter Costello is a “policy bum of the first order, squandering eleven years of prosperity”, he says the appointment is “disloyal to Labor” and he’s not the only one in Labor ranks to be annoyed by it.
GRIFFIN:
Well you will get that reaction around the traps I guess, to a degree. The fact of the matter is there is plenty of things I’ve disagreed with Peter Costello about over the years, but the man has ability. I’m sure Mitch agrees with that. But what I would say is that we need to try to harness together people, from both sides of politics, who have got ability and use them effectively for the country’s overall good.
GILBERT:
But how strong is that feeling within Labor ranks that former Labor people, and Labor MPs should be looked at for these sorts of positions, not someone who has been putting the boot into Labor for the best part of two decades.
GRIFFIN:
Well I think the Government’s view, and it’s certainly the view within caucus that I’ve seen, is that we should be looking at these things on a matter of merit.
GILBERT:
Well the Prime Minister yesterday responded to the criticism from Malcolm Turnbull and from the former Prime Minister Mr Keating. Let’s here what the Prime Minister had to say.
PRIME MINISTER KEVIN RUDD:
Mr Costello and I have had many disagreements over the years. That does not mean that once you have retired from active political life we should not draw upon the experience he’s had of twelve years as Treasurer of the Commonwealth of Australia. That’s my view. I think if you’ve got, you know, Paul Keating in one corner criticising this appointment and Malcolm Turnbull in the other corner criticising this appointment, maybe we’ve just got something right here.
GILBERT:
Mitch Fifield you are a former adviser to Peter Costello, of course, what do you make of the appointment, obviously you’d welcome it but doesn’t Kevin Rudd have a point there in the sense that he’s in the middle here, he’s getting flack from both sides?
FIFIELD:
Well I think it is a terrific appointment. And it is great that there have been all these closet Peter Costello fans in the Australian Labor Party Griffo and Kevin Rudd. Who knew? But obviously there is no one more qualified to be appointed a guardian of the Future Fund than Peter Costello. Not only did Peter establish the Future Fund, but he balanced the Commonwealth Budget, paid back the Labor debt and delivered the surpluses which were able to go into the Future Fund. We wouldn’t have $58 billion in the Future Fund if not for Peter Costello’s surpluses. So it’s a terrific appointment. But obviously there is an irony in the fact that Peter Costello has been held up as the chief architect of the evil neo-liberal economic policies. So clearly Kevin Rudd and other Labor figures recognise what many people do, which is that Peter Costello was the architect of one of the great periods of economic prosperity.
GILBERT:
But Mitch what do you make of this, this is a trend of course, you’ve seen Tim Fischer appointed Ambassador to the Vatican, Brendan Nelson appointed Ambassador to the EU, a number of other appointments as well. Is this essentially bringing in some of the critics into the tent to minimise the criticism from the other side?
FIFIELD:
No I think it is a recognition by Kevin Rudd that a heck of a lot of talent lies on our side of the political fence. It’s something we’ve been saying for a long time and it is good that Kevin Rudd recognises that. It is good that Kevin Rudd acknowledges that someone like Peter Costello has great economic skill, and that he deployed it to good use over eleven and a half years as Treasurer, and that Australians probably look back quite fondly on that period of economic management.
GILBERT:
Alan Griffin is it an attempt to do that, to minimise the criticism, because it does, you are saying that you are using talent on both sides, but it is also going to, I suppose, diminish to a degree Peter Costello’s scope for putting the boot in when he is actually on the board of the Future Fund.
GRIFFIN:
Well I actually think that most of these guys would have been dropping out of politics anyway, and that’s essentially the sense you got from what had been said. So I actually think it is about using ability, and let’s…
GILBERT:
Out of the political fray, you mean?
GRIFFIN:
But I mean, it’s not something new. I mean if you remember back, Malcolm Fraser’s bid for Commonwealth Secretary General was backed by the Hawke Government, of which Mr Keating was a Treasurer. And frankly I couldn’t see a more controversial figure in Labor terms than Malcolm Fraser. And then the previous Government, when Gareth Evans was pushing for appointment, also provided support there. So it is not a new thing, but I think it is a good thing.
GILBERT:
Veterans Affairs Minister Alan Griffin, thanks for joining us this morning.
GRIFFIN:
No worries.
GILBERT:
And Liberal frontbencher Senator Mitch Fifield. As always, great to see you Mitch, thanks for coming in.
FIFIELD:
See you Kieran. See you Griffo.
GILBERT:
That’s all for this edition of AM Agenda.
ENDS