Sky News AM Agenda
Kieran Gilbert and the Hon Maxine McKew MP
29 March 2010
8:30am
E & OE
Subjects: Tony Abbott triathlon, asylum seekers, health, Obama visit to Afghanistan
KIERAN GILBERT:
Good morning and welcome to our panel. The Labor Parliamentary Secretary for Infrastructure, Maxine McKew and the Liberal Parties Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities Mitch Fifield. Good morning to you both.
MAXINE MCKEW
Good morning Kieran.
MITCH FIFIELD
Good morning Kieran. Good morning Maxine.
GILBERT:
Maxine, the government’s been saying that they’ve seen that Tony Abbott should be focusing more on policy development than exercise. But this morning you would have to congratulate him.
MCKEW:
I do. I do and absolutely good on him. A pretty incredible personal achievement and I gather he did it in an incredible time. Under 14 hours so absolutely good on him.
GILBERT:
But the government has been having a few digs at him along the way though for spending too much time in the lycra instead of in the policy development hasn’t it?
MCKEW:
Well Kieran we all make decisions about how we use our time. This kind of extreme event is very important to Tony and on this occasion he has succeeded and as I say I take nothing away from him.
Good on him. But the point is he has won an ironman sports contest. Politics is a contest of ideas. And we have yet to see the big idea from Tony Abbott on health or a whole range of other issues. So as I say it’s a question of how you use your time. We all make our own decisions about that. I got a bit of exercise yesterday. I was out doorknocking in my electorate listening and talking to people about health and a whole range of other issues. So as I say, we all make our decisions.
GILBERT:
Mitch Fifield, it’s obviously a very good PR win as well. These images of Tony Abbott up in Port Macquarie. A tremendous achievement, but is it time to knuckle down a bit more on the policy?
FIFIELD:
It’s a tremendous achievement. It shows discipline. It shows that Tony is a very goal oriented person and I think those are characteristics which you would want in a Prime Minister. But Kieran I’ve got to say more than anything I just feel personally ashamed that I’m ten years younger than Tony and I don’t think I could complete part of one of those legs. But on the serious point Kieran, Labor I think have been quite disgraceful over the last few weeks in relation to Tony, his fitness and his exercise. They’ve been taking little pot-shots. You saw it at the weekend with Nicola Roxon wondering if maybe Tony spends too much time exercising. You’ve seen Wayne Swan saying that he’d dearly like to spend more time surfing but he’s got a serious job and if you’ve got a serious job you don’t have the time to do these things. Basically what the Labor Party is saying is that Tony’s not focusing on his day job. I don’t know why Labor don’t just come out and say that, instead of this sniping little campaign from the sidelines. Tony’s got every right to be fit. He’s got every right to be healthy. He’s got every right to exercise and he’s setting a terrific example for Australians that it’s a good thing to be fit and he’s also demonstrating as I said that he’s someone who’s disciplined, who is goal orientated and I think they’re the sort of characteristics that we want in someone to lead our nation.
GILBERT:
Mitch, there are reports that the Opposition Leader is preparing a series of headland speeches on Prime Ministerial visions on the economy and other areas. Phil Coorey in this morning’s Sydney Morning Herald is quoting one of your colleagues suggesting that those headland speeches can’t come soon enough. To put a bit of meat to the bone when it comes to the policy detail, the policy alternative. Do you agree with that?
FIFIELD:
Well I think Tony’s put a lot of policy out there already. Tony’s put out the paid parental leave scheme. That is a very significant policy. It is a very bold policy. A very detailed policy. Tony’s put out there our plan for local hospital boards in NSW and Queensland. Those two states which have dire health systems. So I think the criticism that there’s not enough policy out there or that we’ve been neglecting putting a plan to the Australian people is unfounded. But having said that I think it’s a very good thing that Tony is looking to make some significant speeches in the weeks and days ahead. And I look forward to those.
MCKEW:
Well Mitch…
GILBERT:
Maxine McKew I’ll let you respond to that criticism.
MCKEW:
Well Mitch you’ve just mentioned there the paid paternity scheme. I mean the only thing I think Tony is winning at the moment in politics is the ironman award for inconsistency. Only a matter of years ago when Pru Goward, the sex discrimination commissioner presented a scheme for paid parental leave not dissimilar in fact to the scheme that Labor now has in place or will have in place certainly by next year, Tony said over my dead body. Now we fast-forward to just recently and Tony is putting out there a six month scheme which will be only funded through a large tax on the business community. Now this is an extraordinary switch. He hasn’t explained this inconsistency other than it’s a matter of political opportunism.
GILBERT:
He does say that he’s allowed to change his mind and in politics surely Maxine you are allowed to change your mind from time to time. Or is everyone locked solid into views?
MCKEW:
The famous phrase of course from Keynes was when the facts change I change my mind. Well what facts have changed over the last 30 years in relation to the need for Australian women to have what women in most other OECD countries have and that is a system of paid parental leave? Now Labor has a plan on the table. It is costed and it will provide for 18 weeks leave to come in next year. Tony just in the last you know couple of months has just suddenly overturned the opposition of his entire political career and said we’ll have a six month scheme. Now wouldn’t we all love that? But you have to have a sustainable funded scheme that has the acceptance of the business community because if you don’t quite frankly you are putting at risk a whole lot of other things.
GILBERT:
Ok Mitch Fifield.
FIFIELD:
Look the Labor Party used to be completely opposed to the Goods and Services Tax. It was such an evil tax that Kevin Rudd said the day that it passed the Parliament was fundamental injustice day. Labor were going to roll back the GST. Labor have changed their position. Labor now think the GST is a terrific tax, so much so that they want to pull back GST revenues from the states and put them into public hospitals. Labor have changed their mind. It’s not a bad thing in politics if you find yourself convinced by a particular argument to change your position. But I’ve got to say, I’m actually getting confused by Labor. On the one hand they attack Tony for not having policy out there. For not having enough policy out there. Then when we have something like the paid parental scheme Labor attack us of having too much policy out there. I think Labor have got to work their lines out a little bit better.
MCKEW:
We’re attacking it because it’s a big tax on business Mitch. That’s why we’re attacking it.
FIFIELD:
Let’s talk ETS if we’re talking mega-taxes.
GILBERT:
Let’s talk asylum seekers for the moment. Maxine McKew, Chris Evans the Immigration Minister says that the fact that a group of asylum seekers were brought to the mainland at the weekend doesn’t change their offshore arrival status in the legal system when it comes to immigration detention. The Prime Minister says he makes no apology for sending these people home because they didn’t meet the criteria. The asylum refugee status. He’s certainly using a lot of strong rhetoric in this debate again isn’t he the Prime Minister.
MCKEW:
I think we’re seeing the proof that in fact the arrangements that Senator Chris Evans has put in place are in fact working. The Prime Minister is right. If people do not…
FIFIELD:
…oh come off it…
MCKEW:
…If people do not meet the appropriate criteria to be accepted as refugees then that judgement will be made and people will be sent home. Now in this case there have been 89 people whose claim for asylum have been rejected. The decision has been made to move them to Villawood. As Chris Evans said, they clearly are unhappy about that decision so he thinks it’s wise to separate them from those whose claims are still being processed and that’s how the system works. Those people will be sent home.
GILBERT:
They still do, Maxine, they still do have one avenue of legal appeal. An independent appeal mechanism. Simon Mann who is the lawyer for a group of these asylum seekers is questioning whether or not it is appropriate for the Prime Minister to be commenting when these legal avenues are still there.
MCKEW:
No I think the Prime Minister is being absolutely clear about what our policy is. That we have a process in place, but if people’s claims are not satisfactory, if they do not meet the criteria for being accepted as refuges then they will be required to go home to their country of origin.
GILBERT:
Ok Mitch Fifield, is your side of politics, Scott Morrison the spokesman whipping up a fear campaign here? You’re describing Christmas Island as a visa factory. But these people as Maxine pointed out, they’re being sent home no visa’s in hand.
FIFIELD:
Well we’re not running a fear campaign. We’re running a fact campaign. And the facts are…
GILBERT:
…but Mitch 90 people moved to the mainland at the weekend and that prompted a claim that it’s a visa factory. How does that work?
FIFIELD:
Well this government through its actions through changing its policy in August 2008 has created a good product for people smugglers to sell. Created a good product for people smugglers to say that we can help you achieve migration outcomes. As a result of those policies we’ve seen since August 2008, 100, close to 100, 98 boats at the moment, but very shortly 100, people smuggler boats come to our part of the world. Over 4,400 asylum seekers come to our shores and that is a 29 percent increase, just last year, a 29 percent increase on the number of asylum seeker applications.
GILBERT:
We’re talking about two different things here Mitch. We’re talking about this claim at the weekend that Christmas Island is a visa factory. The group of people, 90 89 of them moved to Villawood are being sent home. How do they correlate – the claim made by Scott Morrison and what’s actually happening.
FIFIELD:
Those 89 people aren’t being sent home. If they were being sent home they would be on the way home now. The processing of those people has not been completed. We don’t know if as a result of those 89 people being brought to Villawood if that opens up new legal avenues, new legal opportunities for those individuals. I thought it was quite extraordinary Chris Evans saying earlier today that if that turned out to be the case that would in fact be the fault of the previous government. Would be the fault of the previous government’s legislation. Yet it’s this government that’s changed its policy. It’s this government that’s changed its processes and Chris Evans is saying that somehow if a new legal avenue is opened up it’s the fault of the previous government. Chris used a very interesting phrase this morning. He said that these people were on a “removal pathway.” That’s the new language for when you’re taking people from Christmas Island to the Australian mainland that’s a “removal pathway.” It’s not that they’re coming to the Australian mainland it’s a “removal pathway” apparently. They’re not on their way home. They’re still going through processes and we don’t know if as a result of bringing them to Australia new avenues of appeal will be opened up.
GILBERT:
Well the bottom line is there aren’t any international flights out of Christmas Island so the people have to be brought here to be put on international flights but we’ll move on.
FIFIELD:
They should be flying out today but the reality is they’re not on their way home. If they were they’d be at the airport transit lounge now.
GILBERT:
Ok Maxine McKew. Chris Evans says we don’t expect the boats to stop anytime in the near future. That’s what he was quoted as saying this morning. But to any observer that’s just obvious isn’t it? Looks almost inevitable that these boats, the steady flow of boats will continue throughout this election year. How much of a difficulty is it for you politically?
MCKEW:
Well when I look at how Chris Evans is handling this portfolio Kieran I’m very glad it’s Chris Evans in this job and not the previous opposition incumbents.
FIFIELD:
I guess it could be worse. It could be Peter Garret.
MCKEW:
I think it was one of you know the saddest periods in Australian history that we went through if you like in the last 10 years where we saw the hysteria of the opposition around this issue of boat people. Now if you want to go right back we are all boat people. Now what we have, what we have in the last six months or so is an increase in violence in source countries. That has led to a spike around the world. I think last year it was something like 377,000 claims for asylum. You know Australia had two percent of those claims. Two percent of 377,000 claims. Let’s keep this issue in perspective and I think that’s what Senator Chris Evans is doing.
GILBERT:
Ok it’s time for a quick break on AM Agenda. Stay with us we will be right back.
GILBERT:
Welcome back to AM Agenda and our panel Maxine McKew and Mitch Fifield. Mitch I want to ask you about the health debate. The Prime Minister was in Broken Hill yesterday and is in Melbourne today. He is very much focused as you’d imagine on what is seen widely as strength for Labor. That is the health policy. When will Tony Abbott have this alternative out? Surely it’s, he needs to get it out soon doesn’t he?
FIFIELD:
Well I could perhaps quote Kevin Rudd before the last election when he was often asked this question about particular policy areas when they’d be released and say, “in due season.” We’ve got a responsibility as an opposition to critique, question and probe the government’s plan and that questioning, probing and critiquing will assist us in the preparation of our own detailed policy. But it’s not as though we haven’t put out there a direction already. We’ve indicated that particularly in Queensland and NSW it’s important to have local boards to bring accountability to the local level so people know where responsibility lies.
GILBERT:
How long can you afford to leave the ground vacant Mitch because the Prime Minister? It’s fodder for him at the moment.
FIFIELD:
We’re not leaving the ground vacant. We’re asking relevant questions and, Kieran, look at the government’s plan. When all is said and done. When you put all of the Prime Ministers huffing and puffing aside, what we are talking about here under the government’s plan is the same money coming from the same taxpayers going to the same hospitals. The essential difference is an accounting change that 60 percent of the funds will go through the Commonwealth’s books. That’s what we’re really talking about here. We’re not talking about new doctors. We’re not talking about new nurses. We’re not talking about any better health outcomes or patient outcomes. What this government is talking about is essentially an accounting change. Pulling back some of the money from the states from the GST revenues and having that money go through the Commonwealth post-box rather than the state post-box. It’s the same money, the same amount, from the same taxpayers going to the same hospitals.
GILBERT:
Maxine McKew, I’ll let you respond to that but I also want to ask you about the month ahead. It’s a crucial few weeks, three or so weeks before the April 19 COAG isn’t it? What’s the mood like in the government? Are you confident of getting the state on board because the noises out of some of the states aren’t good?
MCKEW:
If I could just respond to Mitch first. Mitch you’re just wrong there and quite frankly as soon as Tony Abbott rehydrates and gets out of the lycra I think it would be a really good idea…
FIFIELD:
…another cheap shot Maxine…
MCKEW:
…If he accepts, if he accepts the briefing that Health Minister Nicola Roxon is offering him on what the government’s plan is and indeed on the recommendations of the Bennett inquiry. Now it’s interesting, Isobel Redmond the Liberal leader in the recent South Australian elections she took up the opportunity to have one of those briefings. I also note that the Liberal leader in NSW, Barry O’Farrell, said late last week in the debate with Premier Kristina Keneally that he broadly accepts what the Prime Minister is putting out there – that the Commonwealth should take on the dominant funding role for our public hospitals and indeed for other areas like primary care and preventive care. Now here we have other Liberal leaders around the country responding to what the Prime Minister said. Why? Because they realise this is one of the most critical areas of public policy for Australia to get right. So I think it would be a really good idea if Tony accepts that briefing.
GILBERT:
Ok Maxine, what about the mood in the government ranks though of winning the states on-board because you’re quoting from some of them but not all of them are positive. Troy Buswell, the Treasurer in WA certainly very negative.
MCKEW:
That’s true. That’s true. Now Wayne Swan as you say had that meeting with the Treasurers last week. Now Kieran I see it in this context. It is unsurprising that there are still a lot of questions that are being asked about this and a lot of concerns. After all this is the biggest change to the health system since the introduction of Medicare in the 1970’s…
FIFIELD:
…So stop bagging those who are asking questions.
MCKEW:
Well…
FIFIELD:
…Stop bagging those who are asking questions Maxine.
MCKEW:
Well whose doing that Mitch? Who is doing that? The fact is…
FIFIELD:
…Your ads on TV. You are. Kevin Rudd is. Nicola Roxon is. You say want to have a constructive dialogue, but all you do is relentlessly bag any Premier, any Federal Opposition leader who propose legitimate questions. Answer the questions.
MCKEW:
Mitch that is not the case.
FIFIELD:
Well pull the attack ads on TV Maxine. Pull the attack ads.
MCKEW:
Could you let me have a word? Thank you.
FIFIELD:
I thought I might have something to say as well.
MCKEW:
Ok. Mitch there was a one hour debate last week and Tony Abbott had a lot of time to put direct questions to the Prime Minister. Now he didn’t do that. He sneered his way through that debate. He swaggered through that debate.
FIFILED:
Sneered! You’ve been sneering at Tony wearing lycra and saying he needs to rehydrate, Maxine. Maxine, we’re not going to cop this. Labor can sneer. Labor can run attack ads against Tony Abbott. Labor can sneer at him, as you did before, saying once he gets out of the lycra and rehydrates. It’s ok for Labor to sneer. It’s ok for Labor to abuse. We’re not sneering. We’re not abusing. We’re asking legitimate questions on public policy and it’s about time the government started answering them rather than attacking anyone with a legitimate question.
GILBERT:
Maxine a quick response.
MCKEW:
I will make this point if I can. When the Prime Minister offered the hand of constructive partnership to Tony Abbott last week he simple threw…
FIFIELD:
…while running attack ads…
MCKEW:
…He simply threw his body back…
FIFIELD:
…The attack ads were running while he was saying that.
GILBERT:
Mitch can we just give Maxine a moment?
MCKEW:
Thank you. Thank you very much. Tony Abbott simply threw his head back and laughed aborously. And I can tell you as I said on this program last week it didn’t go well with Clinicians at the Royal North Shore. IT didn’t go down well with some of the health professionals I was talking to on the weekend. What they want to see is a constructive dialogue. That is what the Prime Minister is offering with the Premiers and indeed with the Leader of the Opposition so let’s get on with it.
GILBERT:
Well you’ve both had your say on that. One final issue to finish. Barak Obama a surprise visit to Afghanistan. His first as the President overnight. Let’s hear a bit of what he had to say to the US Troops there.
Cut to President’s address to American Troops.
GILBERT:
Maxine we saw three Australians wounded in two separate blasts at the weekend. The US causalities on the rise as well. Are we entering a new dangerous, another new dangerous phase in Afghanistan?
MCKEW:
Well let’s hope not. The Australians wounded on the weekend, that was in Oruzgan province and I am told they are, their condition is not serious. But it does highlight doesn’t it the incredibly difficult and challenging mission that this is. Interesting of course that the President is there and of course President Obama wants what we all want and that is for the Afghans to take control of their own security. But you’re right. He must go there absolutely conscious of the high price in American blood and there are two challenges. The military challenge defeating the Taliban and of course the political challenge. The extent to which President Karzai can unite his country. So it is a critical point but the Presidents message is well taken.
GILBERT:
Ok Mitch Fifield just quickly we are almost out of time. Your thoughts?
FIFIELD:
Look it’s a good thing that President Obama has gone to visit the troops in Afghanistan. It’s important for the troops to see that there’s commitment from their government and it’s important that the message is sent out that the US is determined and purposeful. I just make the observation that it’s interesting no matter how any US President’s before they take office says that they’re going to focus on domestic politics, invariably, they spend a lot of their time focusing on international affairs and that’s a good thing because we need the US to be a great moral leader in the world.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, Maxine McKew thanks for joining us.
MCKEW:
Thanks Kieran. Thanks Mitch.
FIFIELD:
Thank Kieran. Thanks Maxine.
ENDS