Sky News AM Agenda
Kieran Gilbert and Mark Butler MP
10 May 2010
8:35am
E & OE
Subjects: Nielsen poll, Budget speculation, asylum seekers, John Singleton
KIERAN GILBERT:
Thanks for being with us on AM Agenda. Joining me now, Parliamentary Secretary for Health, Mark Butler and the Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities, Senator Mitch Fifield. Gentlemen, good morning to you both.
MITCH FIFIELD:
Good morning Kieran.
GILBERT:
Mark, your response to this poll. We spoke to Julie Bishop. She was scathing of what this represents. What do you put it down to? Fourteen points the Prime Minister’s fallen in just three weeks.
MARK BUTLER:
Well, look the government has had to make a couple of pretty tough decisions which we’ve thought are in the national interest and I think there’s probably no surprise to commentators or the parties there’s a been a bit of a reflection of that in the polls. But we’re convinced that those were the right decisions to take in the national interest. Need to build on the budget now and continue with our agenda for health reform and a range of other things into the next election. But look commentating on polls is really your job, not mine. We’re not entirely surprised by this but we’ve got a job of work to do over the next several weeks.
GILBERT:
Not all the numbers are transferring over to the Coalition. It was something I mentioned to Julie Bishop. What do you put that down to? People not convinced about Tony Abbott yet? They want to see a bit more of the detail.
FIFIELD:
Well these polls always do a notional allocation of preferences so we’ve got to assume that it would be a pretty accurate preference flow. But what the poll really shows is that the public pay on results. You can’t be a Prime Minister who consistently breaks promises. Who abandons commitments to childcare centres. Who abandons commitment to ETS. You can’t be a Prime Minister who shows that he can’t administer anything properly. Whether it be home insulation schemes, green loan schemes or the building of school halls. You ultimately pay a price for breaking your word and you pay a price for manifest incompetence. I mean Kevin Rudd did a pretty good job at crafting himself as a bit of a policy wonk and a policy nerd. But I think what the public are realising is he’s not a policy wonk, he’s just a wonk.
GILBERT:
Ok, can I ask you Mark about the couple of the points that Mitch makes, particularly on the ETS. Was that backflip just too, I mean they’ve pushed it back, the government still says it supports an ETS. But after all the strong language leading into the Copenhagen summit last year, the last campaign, it was just you know “the great moral challenge of our time” and then just to drop it. Does this just reflect badly on the leader and people are saying well what does Kevin Rudd actually believe in?
BUTLER:
Well let’s be clear why there’s no ETS in place. There’s no ETS in place because the Liberal Party welched on a deal that was negotiated in good faith. Because the Liberal Party allowed itself to be captured by radical climate change deniers and finally at the last moment because the Greens failed to support the introduction of an ETS as well at the last minute. So the Prime Minister, Ministers like Penny Wong worked incredibly hard both here and on the global scene to get an ETS in place in Australia and were blocked by Tony Abbott and the radical right.
GILBERT:
But are people disappointed now. They backed you for action on climate change and now we’ve seen this fall of fourteen points. That’s a huge jump, drop I should say in less than a month.
BUTLER:
I’m incredibly disappointed there’s no ETS in place either. But let’s be very clear where the blame sits for that. And that is with the radical right and Tony Abbott who decided to block the ETS after negotiations in good faith had come up with what I think was a very good agreement.
FIFIELD:
I mean Kieran, this is bizarre. The government is so committed to getting an Emission Trading Scheme introduced, but what’s their policy? Their policy is to defer it and their policy now is to run scared from a double dissolution election with an ETS. If this government really wanted an ETS, if they’re really committed to this action then they would take the ETS legislation to the polls in a double dissolution election. But they won’t. They won’t because they know the public don’t want it. They know it’s political bad news. They know it’s not going to be effective and they are running away from it at a million miles an hour.
GILBERT:
Maybe that’s wrong because you look at the poll today and 60 per cent of people want an ETS. But anyway, lets look at the mining tax, again. This big ticket item, the centre of political debate at the moment and most people don’t want it. Well 47 per cent of people are against it. 44 per cent support it.
BULTER:
Well this is very new and we’ve got some work to do I think to explain to the Australian community what this tax is about and why this tax is the right thing for Australia as it is and has operated for 25 years in the oil and gas industry. I saw a mining executive on the TV over the weekend describing himself and his friends in the mining industry as god’s gift to the universe. And what we’re really talking about here by way of gifs is the gift mother nature gave to us by way of wealth in resources. Now those are resources owned by every Australian man women and child. Not by those mining executives. What we have now is a series of multi-billon dollar multi-national companies digging up those resources making huge profits which are often paid to investors living it up in New York, London and Beijing and Tokyo and all we’re saying is there should be a fair return on that investment to Australian taxpayers. Ten years ago we were getting one in three dollars of those profits returned to taxpayers for the exploitation of these non-renewable resources. Now it’s one in seven.
GILBERT:
But you’ve obviously got to sell that message because the poll shows that initially people aren’t convinced by it. On the surface it look like a fairly, would be a populist, popular sort of measure, but no.
BULTER:
Look, there is more work for us to do in selling this in the context also of the budget. This is a tax that is going to allow us to drive more infrastructure investment particularly in the resource states which need it most. It’s going to allow us to cut the company tax rate. It’s going to allow us to build retirement incomes for working Australians. So look this is a package that I’m convinced is the right package. But this and the budget and the health reform package are going to have to be talked through by the Prime Minister, the Treasurer, the Deputy Prime Minister and others over the coming weeks. I think we recognise this, but look its very new. Instinctively I think Australians are like other people around the world. They react against a tax. But I’m convinced that once we explain the reasons for this and the way in which the taxes are going to be used to invest in Australia’s future, support will build for it.
GILBERT:
Its going to be a crucial week though isn’t it, politically I mean there’s that debate that’s ongoing but for your leader as well as the budget tomorrow from Mr Swan, Tony Abbott’s budget reply. He’s doing ok in the polls now but there hasn’t been a lot of detail forthcoming.
FIFIELD:
Sure. Well the budget reply is important but let’s not forget that a budget reply merely gives a bit of an indication of the direction of an opposition. It’s not an alternative budget in itself. The focus this week quite rightly should be on the Treasurer and his budget. And the budget is largely going to be underpinned going forward by this mining tax that we’ve been talking about. And Labor’s approach is if you see an industry that’s prospering, if you see an industry that’s going well, if you see an industry that’s employing people, well let’s go and kick the heck out if it. It’s a very funny approach and we see speculation in the paper today that a feature of the budget is going to be a new focus on Australia as a financial centre, a new focus on Australia as a place to invest. Well it’s a pretty funny message to send out to the rest of the world come and invest in Australia and any day you could have tax arrangements changed which fundamentally alter the economics of projects which have already been invested in, projects which are already underway. I think that’s a very bad message to send.
GILBERT:
There’s a bit of other speculation as well. Suggestion that every GP will have a nurse in the GP clinic. $25,000 per doctor to ensure patients get appropriate follow-up care, prescriptions essentially helping with the treatment of patients. Is that true?
BUTLER:
Well I can’t comment on budget speculation but what I can is that this will be a . . .
FIFIELD:
. . . Come on Mark, it’s your portfolio. You know.
BUTLER:
This will be a significant health budget incorporating more than $5 billion of new investment in the health system to deliver shorter waiting times for elective surgery. Shorter waiting times at emergency departments. More doctors, more aged care beds, better care for diabetes patients out in the community. Now whether there will be more health announcements on top of that I can’t say. But look Kieran we’ve only got 36 hours to wait.
FIFIELD:
You’re smiling. You’re smiling.
BUTLER:
We’ve only got 36 hours.
GILBERT:
But it’s good do you think is it a good idea this idea of having nurses at the GP level to provide that sort of level, that patient care sometimes probably GP’s don’t have the time to ensure.
BUTLER:
Look I can’t comment on this speculation on the Daily Telegraph. But what I can we have, since we’ve been in government, had a real focus on building up primary care so that people can be cared for in the community before they need to go to hospital and one of the important elements of that from our point of view has been to use the skills of nurses in the community better. That is why we pushed through reforms over the course of the last several months.
GILBERT:
But do we have enough nurses? Are there enough nurses? I mean if this is true are there enough nurses out there?
BUTLER:
Well we’ve got a range of programs in place that we’ve announced recently to train more nurses. To bring more nurses back into the workforce who have qualifications that aren’t currently nursing. So yes we need to build our health workforce. That was something that was grossly neglected we think over the last decade or more. But building up the skills and using the skills of nurses in the community is something we’ve been talking about for some time.
GILBERT:
What do you think of that idea if it is proven correct, that telegraph story today about having nurses at the GP level?
FIFIELD:
Look, certainly there’s the capacity to make better use of nurses in primary health care. They’re highly skilled individuals. They can perform valuable triage functions and in many contexts that already happens. So the concept isn’t a bad one but we will have to wait and see the actual details in the budget itself. But even if this is a reality, what we see in the Telegraph today, we can’t have any confidence in the government to implement it. We can’t have any confidence in the government to honour a commitment. They’ve abandoned the commitment in relation to not means testing the private health insurance rebate. The government said that they would fix public hospitals and, if they didn’t, they would take them over. They didn’t fix them. They haven’t taken them over. They’ve come up with this new concept of being the dominant funder. I don’t recall Kevin Rudd going to the last election saying we’re going to fix public hospitals and if we don’t we’re going to become the dominant funder. That actually wasn’t the commitment. So sure, there might be a nice announcement in relation to nurses but you can’t have any confidence that the government will actually follow through.
GILBERT:
Ok, let’s look at a couple of other issues now. The sad news, apparently five asylum seekers, suspected asylum seekers missing after they reportedly decided to swim from their troubled vessel using tubes and life jackets. It sounds like a terrible story. Mark what do you know about it?
BUTLER:
Well I don’t know anymore than the reports I’ve read you have Kiernan. I mean if those reports were true, it’s a terrible tragedy and it just reminds us just how awful the practise of people smuggling is. Putting people who are desperate on these rigidly boats to cross the seas is incredibly dangerous and I think re-enforces the commitment the government has to trying stamp out people smuggling along with the work we’re doing with Indonesia and others.
GILBERT:
Mitch, what do you think? I mean it just looks like one of those terrible tragedies that occurs as Mark says with this practise of people smuggling.
FIFIELD:
It looks unfortunately as though it’s going to be another shocking human tragedy. But sadly these sorts of incidents are much more likely because of this government’s border protection policies, because of the changes in August 2008. The change in rhetoric. Much softer language by the government in relation to people smugglers. The abolition of Temporary Protection Visas. As I’ve often said, this gave a good product to people smugglers to sell and we’re seeing that now with over 100 boats having come in.
GILBERT:
Well let’s get Mark’s response. Because that’s what Julie Bishop said as well. We should get Labor’s response.
BUTLER:
Well look we’ve been through this a number of times with Mitch and Julie Bishop and others. You know whenever there’s an incident like this they want play politics with it. But look we’ve got a very tough line on people smuggling. We’ve worked very hard with Indonesia and particular as the closest transit country to Australia to work on ways in Indonesia and here in being very clear about the offences that we’ve placed against people smuggling. We think we’ve got the balance right. Does that mean that you wont get the odd tragedy that appears to have occurred out in the ocean again today. Well, probably doesn’t. But we are, and it happened under the previous government as well. But we are doing everything that we can to stamp out people smuggling both in our own jurisdiction and in terms of our work with Indonesia.
GILBERT:
Mitch, you wanted to say something?
FIFIELD:
The government might be doing everything they can but clearly it’s not working because the boats are still coming. The people smugglers are still plying their trade. People are still finding themselves at great risk. And if we’re to believe the speculation in the papers today that the government is going to be throwing money at the Department of Immigration in relation to border protection issues, that is a further admission by the government that they’re failing dismally. Now the answer isn’t to throw more money at the Department of Immigration. The answer is to change the policy.
GILBERT:
Ok, one very different, very different story to finish on. A very different tone. The Liberal Party add campaign. It looks like you’re going to sign up John Singleton, Singo. He masterminded Bob Hawke’s election.
FIFIELD:
Who knows. He’s got a colourful history. He worked for Hawkie. I think Singo founded the Australian Workers Party, a bit of a libertarian outfit many decades ago. He’s an interesting guy with a lot of talent. But those decisions are ultimately matters for our Federal Director. But what’s ultimately going to matter at this election isn’t which particular ad man or women that each party has. It’s going to be whether you can gain the trust of the Australian people and Kevin Rudd I think has lost the trust of the Australian people. That fundamental compact of trust between the voters and a Prime Minister, he has broken by showing he can’t govern and by breaking his word time and again.
GILBERT:
Mark Butler, that the Liberals starting with an advertising campaign last night. They’re not waiting for an election campaign. It looks like they’re fairly well organised early his year unlike the last campaign where it has to be said it was a bit of a shemozzle for the Liberals. This time it looks like they’ve got their act together.
BULTER:
There’s a fair bit of spin going on. We’ve read reports of Tony Abbott doing acting classes apparently as well.
FIFIELD:
Oh rubbish.
BUTLER:
Between his acting classes and his sporty spice routine in the ocean and on the bike, I’m not sure whether he finds time to craft a budget speech and come up with an economic policy and that’s really what people are looking for I think. More than ads and spin and acting classes.
GILBERT:
Sporty spice, I’ve heard it all now. That’s great. Mark Butler and Mitch Fifield appreciate your time. Thanks
FIFIELD:
Thanks Kieran.
BUTLER:
Thanks Kieran.
ENDS