Sky News AM Agenda
Kieran Gilbert and Mark Butler MP
13 September 2010
8:30am
E & OE
Subjects: Gillard ministry, mental health portfolio, education portfolio, disabilities portfolio opposition frontbench
KIERAN GILBERT:
Hello and welcome to AM Agenda. The Prime Minister’s office has confirmed this morning that the Gillard ministry will be sworn in tomorrow at Government House here in Canberra. There were some surprises including Penny Wong in Finance, Chris Bowen in Immigration, but other appointments were entirely predictable such as Kevin Rudd in the Foreign Affairs portfolio. Joining me to discuss the team and the challenges ahead the new Minister for Ageing and Mental Health, Mark Butler, in Adelaide. Good morning Mark and congratulations. And joining us from Melbourne I’ve got the Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities, Senator Mitch Fifield. Senator good morning to you, I want to start with Mark Butler though. Mark, you’ve been appointed the Minister for Mental Health and Ageing as I say. The Government was criticised during the campaign for its lack of focus on mental health. Julia Gillard says it will be a priority in the second term but, as I say, some criticism from Patrick McGorry and others in that sphere about what Labor has done so it’s a big responsibility for you.
MARK BUTLER:
Well I welcome it. I will be the first, as far as I know, the first Commonwealth Minister for Mental Health and as you say it reflects a commitment that Julia Gillard made before the election and retains to make mental health a significant priority of a second term Gillard Government. So I’m very pleased to be taking on this significant challenge and it reflects what we’ve said for some months now which is that we do have more to do in mental health. It was identified by COAG at the meeting in April as a work priority for 2011 and a lot of that preparatory work is being underdone now, ah, is being done now, between the Commonwealth departments and the state departments. So I very much look forward to this significant challenge and working with people like Pat McGorry.
GILBERT:
Yes because you’ve got a lot of catch-up to do, don’t you? Because Pat McGorry said that you dropped the ball, the Government had dropped the ball in this area.
BUTLER:
Well we have made significant investment, both as part of the May 2010 Budget to double the number of headspace centres for example, an initiative started I recognise by the previous government. We want to double the number of those centres. The Prime Minister during the election campaign unleashed a very significant suicide prevention programme that we want to look to start implementing with a range of mental health stakeholders so we do have a significant record in this area. But as I said we recognise that there is more to do. This is a very significant challenge for the community. Not just for our government but for the broader community.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, doesn’t the appointment of a specific minister in Mark Butler show that Julia Gillard is being true to her word and making this a priority in the second term?
MITCH FIFIELD:
Firstly, congratulations to Mark on his appointment. But I think you’re right Kieran, this is an indication that the Government is playing catch-up. During the campaign, the current government committed less than a quarter of what the Coalition committed to mental health and the Government’s plan was roundly condemned by Patrick McGorry and others. The Coalition gets mental health. The Government is playing catch-up and I hope that Mark is more persuasive with the Prime Minister than his predecessor was.
GILBERT:
Well Mark doesn’t it come down to funding, a lot of this? You saw Jim Mendoza and others, one of your chief advisors in this area quit because of a lack of money. And the Coalition, as Mitch said, did commit $1.5 billion to the area. Doesn’t a lot of it come down to resources and stepping those resources up?
BUTLER:
Well it does. I don’t want to be definitive about what we intend to do. I mean I haven’t had my briefings yet. I haven’t met with a number of the key stakeholders yet obviously, but obviously investment is part of the package that needs to be considered by stakeholders, by our government and by state governments. But what we discovered at COAG is what we identified at COAG is that state governments have historically had pretty much overwhelming responsibility at least for severe mental illness and they deal with these issues in very very different ways. The funding allocated to these issues from state to state is very different. There’s about, from memory, about a 30 or 35 per cent gap between the gap that invests the least in mental health and the state that invests the most in mental health so we have a job of work to do to start to get some national consistency and uniformity about dealing with this Australian problem. It’s not a Victorian or South Australian problem, it’s a national problem, and we as the Commonwealth have said that we want to play a greater role in dealing with one of the great challenges the community faces.
GILBERT:
One of the great challenges that Labor faces is on immigration policy and border protection. Kevin Rudd is going to be the Foreign Minister as we know and he has to implement, Mark, a policy that he opposed when he was Prime Minister. That is of course the East Timor resolution to this. That East Timor offshore processing centre. How’s he going to manage that? It’s obviously going to be a difficult one for him.
BUTLER:
Well this is quite a different proposition that Julia Gillard has outlined, the regional processing centre, that would be done within the international multilateral arrangements under the refugee convention. So this is quite a different proposition to the one that Kevin Rudd as Prime Minister might’ve made some comments about, namely, the previous government’s offshore processing centre in Nauru that was outside the jurisdiction of the UNHCR because Nauru is not a signatory to that convention….
GILBERT:
No but Mark, Kevin Rudd was known to have opposed this idea of East Timor, this specific idea Kevin Rudd was known to have opposed it. On the day that we was toppled he met with the East Timorese leadership and didn’t raise it and it had been discussed in Labor ranks prior to that so it showed that he didn’t want it and as Foreign Minister now he’s got to lead the charge on it.
BUTLER:
Well I think frankly that’s inference. I don’t think that Kevin Rudd is anywhere on the record one way or the other on this. He is a Foreign Minister now and taking on that portfolio under Julia Gillard recognises that that is government policy and I’m sure he is a thoroughly competent professional who knows as much as anyone about international relations. I’m sure that he will take to this task along with Chris Bowen as the new Minister for Immigration and make great headway with the East Timorese.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, Kevin Rudd is a well experienced diplomat. There won’t be any introductions needed from him on the international stage. That’s got to be a plus, doesn’t it?
FIFIELD:
Well you’re quite right, there doesn’t need to be any introduction of Kevin Rudd to world leaders. But part of the problem is world leaders know Kevin Rudd only too well and a lot of them don’t like what they see. Kevin Rudd as Prime Minister very seriously damaged our relations with China. You might recall at the Copenhagen climate change conference he had some very unflattering things to say about our Chinese neighbours. Kevin Rudd snubbed the Japanese Prime Minister shortly after he became Prime Minister and we were always just a short step away from further damaging our relationship with Japan over the whaling issue. Kevin Rudd we know is opposed to the offshore processing proposal at East Timor that the Prime Minister has put forward. We know this because Kevin Rudd at his farewell press conference said that he hoped he wouldn’t see the Labor Party move to the right and what that was code for was offshore processing. Kevin Rudd doesn’t have his heart in the East Timor solution. It’s a solution that bears no chance of success anyway but it stands even less of a chance given that Kevin Rudd is opposed to it.
GILBERT:
Mark Butler as Senator Fifield said, Kevin Rudd in that news conference, that quite famous news conference now said that he didn’t want to see a lurch to the right in the border protection policy. Now he’s got to be overseeing that. And the other point to make is that I suppose when you’ve got such an experienced diplomat at the helm in this portfolio he’s got many of his own ideas. How is that going to be reconciled with the priorities of the Gillard Government to ensure that they’re all on the same page?
BUTLER:
Well firstly I don’t agree with the characterisation that the regional offshore processing centre proposed by Julia Gillard in East Timor is a lurch to the right. It is something outside the paradigm that we’ve seen discussed, boat people processing discussed within Australia. What we’re trying to do with this policy is create a regional solution rather than an Australian or Nauru solution that encompasses the whole of the South-East Asian region, that is under the jurisdiction of the UNHCR and the refugee convention. It’s not a lurch to the right it’s just a different way of looking at the challenge of dealing with unauthorised arrivals. So I don’t agree with the characterisation that it’s a lurch to the right, it’s a different way of approaching this issue and I’m sure that Kevin Rudd will take to it with gusto. In terms of the general approach to foreign affairs, I’m very confident that as Gareth Evans said there will not be a sliver of light between Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard on this issue. The Labor Party…
FIFIELD:
Watch this space.
BUTLER:
The Labor Party has had a very clear and consistent approach to foreign affairs for a very very long time. It does not depend on any particular individual. It’s been very clear in our platform and I think has been a pretty consistent thread from foreign affairs spokesperson and minister to foreign affairs spokesperson and minister and from leader to leader. I expect that to continue.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield you made an interjection there sorry I missed it. What was that?
FIFIELD:
I said “watch this space” in relation to Stephen Smith’s invocation that there not be a sliver of light between the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister on foreign policy. Stephen Smith said that because he knows that Kevin Rudd is going to run foreign affairs exactly the way that he wants to. That there’s going to be a constant tension between the Prime Minister and Kevin Rudd. So watch this space because I don’t think Kevin Rudd is going to be able to withhold himself.
GILBERT:
Gentleman time for a quick break we’ll be right back on AM Agenda. Stay with us.
Break
Welcome back to AM Agenda. With me this morning from Adelaide the new Minister for Ageing and Mental Health, Mark Butler, and from Melbourne the Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities, Senator Mitch Fifield. Gentleman, back to the Gillard team. Mark Butler there’s been some criticism from the higher education sector. I’ll read a couple of comments to you. The Universities Australia chairman says that vice-chancellors are disappointed and mystified by the absence of a specific education minister, someone with that in their title, and commenting on this reshuffle again the Executive Director of the Group of Eight Research Universities says the community feels it’s being devalued, the education community feels it’s being devalued, demeaned or subordinated. Not a good reaction.
BUTLER:
Well I think if they take that inference from the decision over the weekend that’s unfortunate because I think if you look at the responsibilities allocated to the Cabinet there is a very significant investment in education there. I mean there are two cabinet ministers with responsibility for education. One with schools education and one with undergraduate university education being Chris Evans. Also in addition to that Kim Carr continues to have responsibility for research in universities, particularly post-graduate education and Julia Gillard is being very clear about her passion for continuing her education revolution so I think you would struggle to find a Cabinet with a more significant investment in education for our future. I understand and I’ve read some comments about the disappointment of some in the university sector about the lack of the word ‘education’ in someone’s title and I’m sure that there’ll be some discussions with government about that but I think if you look at the substance of the team that Julia Gillard announced over the weekend there is a very very substantial emphasis on education as there should be.
GILBERT:
But if he’s called the Skills Minister, skills and jobs, it doesn’t really reflect the importance of tertiary education, does it? And that’s the problem that the vice-chancellors have got. Why not just throw the term, or the name ‘education’ into Chris Evans’ title and be done with it, and placate their concerns?
BUTLER:
Well I think without getting into a debate about nomenclature, I mean skills and jobs are what higher education, whether it’s the TAFE sector of the university sector, is all about. Now I don’t want to get into an argument remotely with the vice-chancellors who have made these comments about the use of the term ‘education’ but the substance of the decision to give this responsibility to Chris Evans and a second minister for schools education in the Cabinet I think is a very very welcome decision and reflects the importance that Julia Gillard attaches to education.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield there are three ministers with governance of the education area and really no one could be mistaken over Julia Gillard’s commitment to education itself as one of her priorities. She’s discussed it day in and day out during the campaign as her biggest priority.
FIFIELD:
Well there is confusion and there isn’t acceptance of this government’s commitment to education. We know that from Universities Australia’s comments this morning. We know that from the schools sector this morning who are concerned. This is more than a little careless, Kieran, a Prime Minister who forgot to appoint an education minister. Education split three separate ways. Part of the reason for that is you can’t have Peter Garrett responsible for the Building the Education Revolution because he was responsible for the roof insulation debacle – the greatest maladministration in Commonwealth history. So of course you’ve got to have a separate education minister to look after the BER because Peter Garrett can’t. This reshuffle has really been predicated on two things. The first is reward rewarding the coup plotters. Shorten, Arbib, Feeney and Farrell. And the second, it’s based on ego. It’s based on mollifying the egos of those people who if they didn’t get a portfolio might quit the Parliament and cause a by-election and Peter Garrett is Exhibit 1 for that. If there’s anyone who demanded to be sacked from this ministry it’s Peter Garrett.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield you know your opposite number Bill Shorten in the area of disabilities has been an effective advocate, has he not, in that first term? He’s been widely praised for his role in putting this on the agenda. So why not be promoted, for Bill Shorten?
FIFIELD:
I certainly give Bill some credit for helping raise the profile of disabilities…
GILBERT:
So why not then (inaudible) promotion?
FIFIELD:
…but I give most of the credit to the sector themselves. But I’m glad you raise disabilities because Julia Gillard praised Bill Shorten’s role in disabilities, said that warranted some promotion. So committed is this government to the area of disabilities that there is no member of the frontbench who has dedicated responsibility for disabilities. Julia Gillard was asked about this at her press conference and she stumbled and um’d and ah’d and said “oh well we’ve got a couple of parliamentary secretaries without specified responsibilities in the Families portfolio, I suppose one of those people might end up with the responsibility.” So important is disabilities that that’s also something that Julia Gillard forgot about in her frontbench lineup.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield what about the Liberal lineup, we’re hearing there’s a fair bit of pressure in Liberal Party ranks from younger members that there should be some renewal. Some pressure on Tony Abbott to renew the frontbench and maybe move on some of the longer serving members.
FIFIELD:
I’ve got no doubt that there will be some renewal in this frontbench lineup. Tony’s really got to take two things into account as he crafts his frontbench. The two separate roles of an opposition. The first is that you’ve got to be an alternative government and we presented ourselves as an alternative government at the recent election. We got a majority of the vote, a majority of the seats and we very nearly formed government. So we need to be prepared in this unstable parliamentary environment that we may be called upon to form government so it’s important that we continue to see ourselves and present ourselves as an alternative government. The other task of opposition, which has got to be borne in mind, is that we have a duty, a responsibility, to hold the government to account and to scrutinise them. And so although this parliament, this government, may not continue its full term we nevertheless need to structure ourselves in both arrangements and personnel so that we’re well equipped to do that task of holding the government to account over, potentially, the full three years.
GILBERT:
When you say that you’ve got no doubt there’ll be renewal is that a call and support from you for Mr Abbott to say to some of the longer serving veterans on the Liberal side that “Okay, thanks for your contribution but we’ve got to get some of these younger faces into the frontline.”
FIFIELD:
Oh look there’s always some change in every reshuffle. We’ve got some talented new members of the parliamentary team. We’ve got some great members who’ve got experience and institutional knowledge and it’s important to embrace both of those particular aspects of the parliamentary party.
GILBERT:
Okay Senator Fifield. Mark Butler just quickly, we’re almost out of time, but the swearing-in as I understand it tomorrow, a big day, obviously the government doesn’t want to look too triumphant but obviously a big day in many of your careers.
BUTLER:
Oh well look it’s an enormous honour to serve in any executive capacity for the Australian Government so we recognise the seriousness of the position. But we also recognise the privilege and honour personally to have been appointed by Julia Gillard. I think all of us, certainly I am and I know my colleagues are just looking forward to getting down and starting our jobs.
GILBERT:
Mark Butler, Senator Fifield as well in Melbourne, appreciate your time both of you this morning. Thanks for that.
ENDS