28 February, 2011
Sky News – AM Agenda
Ashleigh Gillon and Andrew Leigh MP
28 February 2011
8:45am
E & OE
Subjects: Carbon tax, National Disability Insurance Scheme, Julia Gillard’s leadership
ASHLEIGH GILLON:
Welcome back. This morning Tony Abbott has been out and about, continuing his crusade against the proposed carbon tax. This morning he claimed there are doubts among Labor’s backbench about the tax – saying there’s been a stampede of voters contacting Labor MPs’ offices to voice their concerns. Have a listen.
TONY ABBOTT (file footage):
Labor MPs on Friday were absolutely deluged with emails and telephone calls from angry constituents. That’s what Labor MPs are telling people that they have been absolutely shocked and dismayed by the reaction to this because so many Labor voters feel utterly betrayed by a Prime Minister who said one thing to win the election, but is doing something completely different now.
GILLON:
Our panel of politicians are with us from Canberra. I’m joined by the Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate, Mitch Fifield, and Labor MP Andrew Leigh. Good morning, thank you to both of you. Andrew Leigh, have you been inundated by anti-Carbon tax calls and emails? Are your backbench colleagues as nervous as Tony Abbott says you are about a voter backlash?
ANDREW LEIGH:
Ashleigh I think that’s an absurd story. I was at the Canberra Show this weekend, having a mobile office as I often do on Saturdays, and spoke with a whole host of local voters who told me about how important it is to them that we begin dealing with dangerous climate change. And they support the approach the Government is taking which is recognising that if you’re dealing with climate change, the best way of doing it is to put a price on pollution. Because we’re a Labor Government of course we’ll also provide assistance to those who are affected by those prices, but recognising that a price on pollution, and starting early, is the best way of moving Australia to a clean, green future. That’s the message that resonates very strongly with all of the voters that I’ve spoken with.
GILLON:
Well also this morning Mr Abbott committed to continuing his opposition to the tax if he wins government at the next election. Here’s more of the Opposition Leader:
TONY ABBOTT (file footage):
Let me give you this absolute, crystal clear assurance: we are against this in Opposition, we will be against this in Government. It’s simple as that.
GILLON:
Mitch Fifield, would that mean that the Coalition would repeal the tax if you win government at the next election:
MITCH FIFIELD:
Our objective is to stop this tax in the first place. That’s what we think we’ll be able to do with the support of the Australian people. In contrast to Andrew’s experience over the weekend, my phone was running off the hook last week, emails have been flooding in at the weekend it’s clear that the Australian people don’t want to have to pay an extra $300 a year on electricity, that they don’t want to have to pay an extra 6 and a half cents a litre for petrol. We’re opposed to this tax and we aim to stop it.
GILLON:
We can see that Tony Abbott was out at a petrol station at the weekend warning about the 6 and a half cent rise in a litre of petrol. But Mitch Fifield, isn’t it way too early to make those sort of claims considering we don’t even know a) what the carbon price is and b) whether fuel will be included, and if there’ll be an offset on the fuel excise?
FIFIELD:
Well, that’s operating on an assumption about what the cost will be per tonne of carbon. That’s based on industry work so we think that’s the minimum scenario that’s probably the best case scenario in terms of what the public will have to pay. But you’re right. The Government haven’t fleshed out much detail. We’ve essentially just had another hand-holding, another agreement. But this Government if Julia Gillard is to be believed is determined to break her word, her solemn pledge to the electorate and introduce a carbon tax. So, we’ve got to start talking about what the effect will be on consumers. We know the Government doesn’t want to talk about the effect on consumers. They want to delay that for as long as possible. But we as an Opposition have a duty to say to the public, ‘look, these are the sorts of figures that you’re looking at.’
GILLON:
I just want to pick up on that point that Mitch Fifield made about it being a broken promise. Julia Gillard did yesterday admit that that was something she said before the last election that she wouldn’t introduce a carbon tax. But she certainly wasn’t apologising for the backflip, she explained that the situation before the election to after has changed dramatically. Have a listen to this:
JULIA GILLARD (file footage):
Some circumstances have changed in the meantime. I didn’t predict before the election that we would have the Parliament we have today. But we do have the Parliament the Australian people elected, and I want to work with that Parliament to get things done. That means that in working with people in the Parliament who genuinely want to tackle climate change and price carbon. I’ve agreed start with a fixed price, and then move to the full Emissions Trading Scheme.
GILLON:
Andrew Leigh, how are Australians meant to trust Julia Gillard now? It is a pretty serious change of heart, isn’t it?
LEIGH:
Ashleigh, I think it’s important not to do too much splitting of hairs here. If I was teaching an introductory economics course, all we’d call this is pricing the externality.
FIFIELD:
It’s also called a fib.
LEIGH:
Put in layman’s terms, what we’re trying to do is to put a price on pollution. And you can do this in two ways you can either have the Government set the price and the market determine the quantity, or the Government set the quantity and the market determine the price. Either way, you get an efficient outcome. You get reform happening at the lowest cost to the Australian people. That’s very different from Tony Abbott’s direct action plan, which is going to be an extremely expensive way to deal with climate change.
GILLON:
But Andrew, it’s not really splitting hairs, is it? Julia Gillard said that there would be no carbon tax under my Government, and now she’s saying that there will be from the middle of next year.
LEIGH:
Ashleigh we’ve campaigned loud and long on putting a price on carbon. The exact mechanism on how that’s done is not the critical thing here. What we’ve decided is that for the first three to five years we want the certainty of a fixed price, but then we want the quantity approach the Emissions Trading Scheme so we can mesh with the rest of the world. This is mainstream economics, Ashleigh. This is the kind of economics that the British Conservative Party signed on to in 2002 when they signed on to Emissions Trading. It’s the kind of mainstream economics that John Howard signed on to when he went to the 2007 election promising an Emissions Trading Scheme a promise that Tony Abbott later trashed when he won the leadership. Emissions trading is a market-based mechanism, and I do see a really strong irony here, Ashleigh, that it’s the Labor Party that are the stalwarts of the market mechanism. We’re the ones saying, ‘if you want to move to a clean, green future, let millions of entrepreneurs make those decisions. Let households have the choice. Don’t command and control your way out of the problem allow the market to do it for you in the most efficient way possible.’
GILLON:
Mitch Fifield, this morning Tony Abbott said that all of shadow cabinet is behind his position when it comes to tackling climate change. That’s not quite true, is it, considering you’ve got people like Malcolm Turnbull sitting there who has argued for an Emissions Trading Scheme for years now?
FIFIELD:
Ashleigh I haven’t heard a colleague embrace anything other than our direct action plan since the election. We are all on the one page. And I’ve got to tell you, I think our argument is going to win through for so long as the Government says ‘no, this isn’t a lie, this isn’t a broken promise, this is just a pricing of externalities.’ That sort of argument is not going to wash with the Australian public. Julia Gillard put her hand on her heart at the election and said, ‘no Government I lead will have a carbon tax.’ Wayne Swan, when a carbon tax was floated that Labor might actually introduce one during the election campaign – he referred to those remarks as ‘hysterical comments.’ You can’t trick the public in this way. This is a fundamental breach of trust. The Government were sneaky before the election they think they’re being very clever now. Well, they’re not. They’re not fooling the Australian people. If you want to radically depart from policy, you’ve got to take it to an election. That’s what we did with the GST and the new tax system we took it to the Australian people. Julia Gillard didn’t. She was sneaky, she slid in to Government on a lie.
GILLON:
Well, we’ll look forward to more debate about this today when question time kicks off. I’m sure it will be a main focus of the session. I did want to look at a couple of other issues. The Senate today will be debating the flood levy after the legislation passed through the lower house last week, and all eyes will be on the Independent Senator Nick Xenophon whose vote will be determining whether the levy passes or not. There is also going to be some discussion about another potential levy the Productivity Commission today will be handing down its report into the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Andrew, can your Government really embrace another levy for a disability scheme, considering the flood levy and the carbon tax?
LEIGH:
Well look Ashleigh you’re asking me a question about a draft report that hasn’t yet been released. So let’s not get ahead of ourselves. This is a Government-
GILLON:
The likelihood is that it will form a medicare-style levy, won’t it? That’s what we’re all expecting.
LEIGH:
Ashleigh I have no idea what this report is going to say. I haven’t read it because it hasn’t come down yet. When it comes down I think we’ll have a healthy discussion about how best to help Australians with a disability. This is a critical issue and that’s why the Government referred this issue to the Productivity Commission because we recognise that living a life in dignity, having dignified work, having accessible education places is critically important. It’s with those broad parameters that we’ve asked the Productivity Commission to undertake this inquiry.
GILLON:
Mitch does the Coalition support the introduction of this sort of National Disability Insurance Scheme, and should it be funded by a medicare-style levy?
FIFIELD:
Look, there’s no doubt that Australians with disability get a raw deal. The level of support isn’t determined by your need it’s determined by how you acquired your disability. So if you fall off the roof at home you’re pretty much on your own. If you’re in a car accident or a workplace accident you get some support. If you’re born with a disability, too often you’ve got to cobble together your own support. It’s not good enough we’re not doing the right thing by Australians with disability at the moment. We have fully supported the work of the Productivity Commission. There does need to be a new national arrangement that fills these gaps. Australians with disability and their carers they don’t particularly care where the money comes from or how it’s funded. They just want a scheme that fills the gaps and gives them the support they need and deserve. And the Coalition brings an incredibly open mind to the work of the Productivity Commission and we look forward to reading it.
GILLON:
Even if that does include another levy?
FIFIELD:
As I say, we bring the most open of minds to the work of the Productivity Commission. And Australians with disability they just want this fixed.
GILLON:
OK. Just finally, Andrew Leigh, over the weekend Julie Bishop reported that Bob Hawke had apparently commented that he thinks Greg Combet would be Julia Gillard’s successor. He said that apparently at an event in Perth earlier this month. Is that the likely scenario, Andrew? Do you think that Greg Combet would make a better Prime Minister than someone like Bill Shorten, for example?
LEIGH:
Ashleigh, Greg Combet is an extraordinary politician. He’s a man of enormous talents and great integrity. I’ve learnt an awful lot from Greg in the six months that I’ve been in Parliament. But Julia Gillard is a splendid Prime Minister. I’m proud to stand behind them both in speaking about climate change initiatives on Friday and Julia Gillard will lead Labor to the next election.
GILLON:
Mitch, Julie Bishop’s obviously got the inside word on what’s going on inside Labor.
FIFIELD:
Well Julie’s very plugged in and connected. She keeps her ear to the ground. But look, I just think it’s terrific that Bill Shorten doesn’t have this all to himself that there’s going to be a bit of competition on the Labor side. I think that’s really helpful and really good. But what we do know is that Labor – having got a taste for pulling down a Prime Minister – the hard thing in politics is pulling down your first Prime Minister, it gets really easy after that. And as Labor’s number turn south with the carbon tax, I think we’ll see a bit of a replay of what we saw before the last election. Watch out, Julia.
GILLON:
A bold prediction, Mitch Fifield! Thank you for your time. Thank you to you, Andrew Leigh, too.
LEIGH:
Thanks Ashleigh.
FIFIELD:
Thank you Ashleigh.
GILLON:
That’s all the time we have for this edition of AM Agenda. For more politics, join Kieran Gilbert at 1:30pm Lunchtime Agenda.
ENDS