28 March, 2011
TRANSCRIPT
Sky News – AM Agenda
Kieran Gilbert and Andrew Leigh MP
28 March 2011
8:35am
E & OE
Subjects: NSW election
KIERAN GILBERT:
Welcome back to AM Agenda. With me this morning on our panel is Labor MP Andrew Leigh here in the Canberra studio, and in our Melbourne studio, Liberal frontbencher Senator Mitch Fifield. Senator Fifield, good morning. First to you, this enormous swing that we saw against State Labor – doesn’t this reflect a similar sort of thing to what we saw recently in Victoria with Ted Baillieu – that governments beyond a decade just really struggle to make any sort of marketable pitch for re-election?
MITCH FIFIELD:
Well there’s certainly the issue of longevity – this was a Government that was seeking to be in office for 20 years. But the New South Wales election result, I have to say, is quite different to others. We don’t just have the issue of the length of time in office, we have what is probably the most incompetent Government in the history of Australia. This Government really was without precedent when it comes to scandal, when it comes to maladministration, when it comes to corruption. So I think this is a different set of circumstances again. But the disappointing thing is that Labor hasn’t got the message. I heard Virginia Judge, who was a defeated Minister, on radio this morning saying that there’s nothing wrong with the Labor Party. Well, how can there be nothing wrong with the Labor Party when you’ve had a shellacking of this magnitude? And the concerning thing for us is that you have the same crew the same Sussex Street mob essentially running the Federal Government. Labor still don’t get it. They don’t listen to the people. They’re out of touch. They don’t realise that cost of living pressures are making it extremely hard for many families Federal Labor still haven’t got that message.
GILBERT:
Andrew Leigh, what is the message? And do you think there is a sense of relief among some quarters that this election is finally, finally done?
ANDREW LEIGH:
Well Kieran, you can’t write off longevity. The last time state voters gave a state government 20 years in Parliament John Farnham was on top of the charts. We just don’t give governments that duration in Australian politics any longer. Clearly there’s the issue that New South Wales Labor stopped focussing on policies and were too focussed inwardly. Three leaders in four years is a big factor there. But this is very much a state election focussed around state issues and voters expressed that.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, given all the dramas you mentioned – and I think quite rightly – surrounding that New South Wales Government, isn’t it fair what Andrew just said? That this was a state based election, and that the Coalition was trying to spin it to suggest that it was a carbon tax backlash?
FIFIELD:
It was overwhelmingly determined on state factors, but the carbon tax was something that was in the voters’ minds. It was in the voters’ minds for two reasons – the substance of the issue itself people are concerned about cost of living pressures and they know the carbon tax will increase petrol prices by 6.5 cents per litre and will hike electricity bills by $300 a year. The other part of the carbon tax in the state election is that it was emblematic of the Labor approach, which is to promise one thing before the election in the case of the carbon tax they promised not to have one, and then to do something completely different after the election, to break the promise and then to try to spin it away. So for New South Wales voters, when looking at the carbon tax issue, it reminded them of the Labor style of governing. And the carbon tax issue it’s just Labor spin, it’s the New South Wales Labor style which we’re seeing federally. So I think it reinforced existing views that voters already had about Labor as a brand.
GILBERT:
Premier-elect Barry O’Farrell campaigned heavily in terms of infrastructure, particularly the North-West rail. And he wants the $2 billion that the Government has committed to the Parramatta-Epping rail link diverted to this other infrastructure project. Now given he’s got nearly 70 seats in a 93-seat chamber, surely he’s got the mandate to do that. Yet Anthony Albanese this morning was saying, ‘no, sorry, if you don’t want $2 billion for that rail project, you don’t get it at all.’
LEIGH:
Well Kieran, we didn’t re-negotiate these infrastructure deals when governments changed in Victoria or Western Australia, and I don’t see any need reason to do it in New South Wales.
GILBERT:
The people of New South Wales obviously think Barry O’Farrell was on the right course with what he’s arguing. Surely you have to listen to what was said at the weekend?
LEIGH:
Well on its merits, Parramatta to Epping is an important rail link. It’s a major infrastructure project which is ready to go. Barry O’Farrell is incorrect when he says that New South Wales isn’t getting its fair share of infrastructure funding – $1 in $3 has been going to New South Wales. Kieran I just have to respond –
GILBERT:
I’ll let you respond in one moment. But on the merits of arguing that he hasn’t got a mandate, surely Mr Albanese and the Government can sit down and say ‘OK, the New South Wales people have said that “we like your plan, we don’t like the other mobs plan,” so therefore Epping to Parramatta has to be re-thought and we should look at O’Farrell’s North-West rail link.’ If he thinks it’s the right plan, then obviously the vast majority of New South Wales agrees with him. Shouldn’t the federal Government sit down and listen?
LEIGH:
Kieran, elections are won on a variety of issues, I’m not sure that the people of New South Wales don’t want the Epping to Parramatta rail link. But it’s important to make state-federal deals that endure and go on, and that’s exactly what we’re doing. But I do want to come back to Mitch’s comments on carbon pricing.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, I’ll get you to respond in a moment. We’ll let Andrew just finish his point.
LEIGH:
Mitch is throwing around figures which are purely a scare campaign. We haven’t determined a price on carbon and so any numbers that people hear, they shouldn’t place any credence in.
FIFIELD:
Then give us your numbers, Andrew.
LEIGH:
What Labor is going to do is to put a tax on big polluters and provide assistance to households. Tony Abbott instead wants to tax households and assist big polluters.
GILBERT:
OK Senator Fifield, your response to both of those?
FIFIELD:
Sure. On our figures for how much electricity prices will increase and how much petrol prices will go up if Labor don’t agree with our figures, then give us yours. These are the best estimates of industry. If the Government doesn’t agree with us, give us your numbers. Of course, they won’t, because the numbers would be too ugly and they want to continue this charade that people won’t be paying more for electricity.
But Kieran, to the other point of Barry O’Farrell’s desire to change some infrastructure priorities, what Andy is basically saying is, ‘the voters can go and get stuffed.’ That’s Labor’s attitude. Barry O’Farrell has just been endorsed with the biggest electoral mandate possibly in Australian history. And we’ve got a federal Labor Government who have no mandate, who are a minority government, who have no authority from the electorate, saying ‘well too bad, who cares what the New South Wales voters have decided? We’re going to ignore it.’ Well it’s a very strange state of affairs when you’ve got a minority government, no authority, saying well, ‘Barry O’Farrell, newly endorsed Premier, massive mandate, we don’t care what the people of New South Wales think.’ It’s extraordinary.
GILBERT:
That’s not going to go down well with the electorate in New South Wales.
LEIGH:
Well Kieran are we going to negotiate every state-federal deal that’s ever been struck? When you’re doing these sorts of things you have to keep on moving forward. Just because –
FIFIELD:
Circumstances change. Governments change. For heavens’ sake Andy, quit while you’re behind!
LEIGH:
We have a strong history in this country of striking state-federal deals and moving forward. And that’s what’s happening.
FIFIELD:
That’s the Labor attitude ‘bugger the voters!’
GILBERT:
You’ve known for some time that O’Farrell had this plan he’s campaigned furiously on this, saying this is what Sydney needs and that the other was a political fix to win Bennelong. And yet you’re saying that this is locked in stone, and Mr Albanese says ‘no, we’re not going to.’ Surely the events of Saturday should lead to a reconsidering?
LEIGH:
The Parramatta-Epping is an important project, Kieran. I grew up in Pennant Hills which is not far from there, and I know how much residents of Sydney would benefit from having that link. John Alexander, Liberal candidate for Bennelong, campaigned for Parramatta to Epping. This is an important project which will help reduce congestion in Sydney. It should be done and we’re asking Mr O’Farrell to go ahead with it.
FIFIELD:
Kieran, just before we move off that. Andy is saying, ‘no, we can’t possibly change the decisions that were made on infrastructure, because they’ve already been established so we can’t possibly change those.’ But the Government has absolutely no hesitation in changing its mind on a carbon tax. Before the election they said there would be no carbon tax, and then, without a mandate, they decided we will have a carbon tax. Yet they’re going to do the exact opposite and ignore the mandate of Barry O’Farrell.
LEIGH:
I’m happy to discuss your Party’s plan to subsidise big polluters, and ours to reduce pollution in the economy by taxing big polluters-
GILBERT:
OK. Let’s just move on. Senator Fifield, I want to ask you about the fact that Barry O’Farrell well this is an issue to do with Tony Abbott Tony didn’t play much of a role in that campaign. Are there any tensions there at all, particularly on the back of comments last year where Tony Abbott said to your Party Room that we’re not going to win the election adopting a Barry O’Farell small target strategy? It didn’t go down well with Barry O’Farrell, did it?
FIFIELD:
There’s no tension. Tony helped launch the campaign with Barry. Barry is going to be a sensational Premier and no one was more delighted about his election than Tony. So, tensions? Absolutely not.
LEIGH:
These tensions go back a long way, Kieran. As we know, Mr O’Farrell beat Mr Abbott for State Director in the early 1990s. They represent fundamentally two different wings of the Party – Mr O’Farrell from an accommodating, more moderate wing and Mr Abbott from a very extreme wing of the party. We saw that with the people he was associating with last week – League of Nations, Citizens Electoral Council, Pauline Hanson and One Nation. That’s the brand of politics Mr Abbott has brought to the Federal Parliament.
FIFIELD:
Let me set the record straight. My current boss is Tony Abbott. My first boss in politics was Barry O’Farrell he was Chief of Staff in the Transport Minister’s office in the Greiner Government when I worked there. I can tell you there is no tension between the two of them. They get along extremely well and this is going to be a fantastic government in New South Wales.
GILBERT:
Andrew Leigh, you have a bit of history there, don’t you? Didn’t you take on Barry O’Farrell in the early days?
LEIGH:
Indeed, my response to this mirrors Mitch’s, in some sense. My first political opponent was Barry O’Farrell and I’m now in a Labor Government which is opposed by Mr Abbott. But these are fundamentally different people. They bring a different style to their politics. I think part of that is why Mr O’Farrell did quite well over the weekend I think he’s seen as someone who didn’t bring extremism to Australian politics.
GILBERT:
Would you urge your frontbench Labor colleagues to be as accommodating as possible to the new Government? It would look a bit odd if you were belligerent in the face of that overwhelming mandate he’s got.
LEIGH:
Well look, certainly we’re congratulating Mr O’Farrell for his victory and we’ll be looking to work with him as we worked with Premiers from Victoria and Western Australia. I think, Kieran, after these sort of election results, there’s a tendency to say, ‘well things have fallen apart, state-federal relations can never work again.’ But we saw Colin Barnett, Premier of Western Australia saying after the COAG health deal that it was efficient, effective and it was going to work well.
GILBERT:
Anna Bligh called it the ‘Labor disease’ in New South Wales diseases can spread. We saw Kevin Rudd toppled in the first term of the Labor Government. Do you feel comfortable now that that disease has been at least inoculated in the Federal Parliament? Or is there still work to be done in terms of Federal Labor?
LEIGH:
There’s always work to be done in improving our political party. I think the moment we sit still and say that our party is perfect is the moment we need to find another career.
GILBERT:
What are the problems right now that need to be dealt with?
LEIGH:
Well there’s been a national review report done, which has noted that like all other political parties, we’ve been shedding members over time. We need to get more people in to the Labor Party. There’s certainly ways of doing that perhaps by bringing more internal party democracy, or creating more policy forums. I think we should be constantly looking at how to re-invent the Labor Party to make it more up-to-date with changing technologies. More use of social media, more use of campaigning. Some of those techniques that the Obama campaign used
GILBERT:
And not assassinating your own leaders?
LEIGH:
I think the infighting in New South Wales is clearly a major factor in terms of
GILBERT:
But the Federal Government your own Government toppled your leader as well.
LEIGH:
Look, there’s been plenty of leadership changes on both sides in Federal politics over time. But I think the important thing to recognise is that when we start focussing on ourselves rather than focussing on problems like climate change, like a stronger economy and a fairer society that’s the moment we’re in trouble. We do need to do party reforms, but party reforms are not our number one focus. Our focus is on providing opportunities to every Australian kid, regardless of where they grew up –
GILBERT:
Mitch Fifield, conservative Governments are now in charge of 70% of the nation’s economy at a state level. Would you expect them to consult with Tony Abbott to ensure the politics are right, as well as what Andrew described as the cooperation within COAG?
FIFIELD:
State governments, be they Liberal or Labor, are sovereign entities. It’s their jobs to look after the best interests of the citizens in their state. And I’m sure that’s what Barry and Ted and Colin are doing and will continue to do. Obviously as members of the same political party we cooperate, but first and foremost they’re there to do the business of the people of New South Wales. And that’s where Labor lost their way in New South Wales. They forgot what people wanted basically, trains that run on time, they don’t want queues to be too long in hospitals and they want decent infrastructure so they can get around the city. That’s what Labor lost sight of. They also lost sight of cost of living pressures, which is the same problem Julia Gillard has. She’s lost sight of cost of living pressures.
Andy was, I think, in a little bit of a parallel universe saying part of the solution is Labor having more social media and better techniques. This isn’t about those sorts of issues. This is about delivering results for people.
GILBERT:
OK, Senator Fifield, just in 20 seconds or less, what are the implications here for the Independents, in your view?
FIFIELD:
Well I think the first point is that even in those seats held by Independents, there was a massive message for Labor. There was a Labor primary vote of six or seven per cent often in those seats. There is a message here, and I think we’ve partly had that delivered from your first guest this morning, Joel Fitzgibbon, who said that what people are looking for is stable, majority government. That really was a concession by Joel Fitzgibbon that people don’t have that under Julia Gillard.
GILBERT:
OK, Senator Fifield and Andrew Leigh, thanks for you time gents.
LEIGH:
Thanks Kieran.
FIFIELD:
Thank you.
ENDS