4 July, 2011
Sky News – AM Agenda
Kieran Gilbert and the Hon Richard Marles MP
4 July 2011
8:40am
E & OE
Subjects: carbon tax, Labor-Green alliance
KIERAN GILBERT:
Welcome back to AM Agenda. With me now is the Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate, Senator Mitch Fifield, and Labor frontbencher Richard Marles. Gentlemen, good morning to you both.
First to you, Senator Fifield. Mr Abbott said that the carbon tax would see petrol prices skyrocket. He’s wrong, isn’t he?
MITCH FIFIELD:
No, I think it still will. Julia Gillard said that she wouldn’t introduce a carbon tax. She lied. Why would we believe her now when she says that petrol won’t be subject to a carbon tax? The Greens are adamant that it will be. They have asked the Government to commission a Productivity Commission inquiry into the taxation of fuel. They’ve only done that for one reason, and that’s because they want petrol prices to increase. That is their determination and I’m sure that will be the outcome.
GILBERT:
Richard Marles, is that a fair argument, given that there was not meant to be a carbon tax in the first place?
RICHARD MARLES:
Look, it’s not a fair argument. We’ve got agreement now that will see the petrol bowser exempted from the carbon price, now and forever for small businesses and households and that is great news for them. But what it really does is dispel the despicable scare campaign that we’ve seen from the Liberal Party in relation to the effects on the price of petrol as a result of the carbon price regime. No less than twenty occasions, the Leader of the Opposition has gone out and said there’s going to be an increase in the price on petrol by six cents a litre. Greg Hunt last Friday doing the same thing. What we now know is that all of that is rubbish, and I think this announcement is the beginning the end of the scare campaign. As we unveil this campaign, we’re starting to see that the emperor has no clothes and that this scare campaign is complete rubbish.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, I want to ask you as well about big business and the implications for truckies and so on, but first, Senator Fifield, a response?
FIFIELD:
A question for Richard: Richard, will you guarantee that as a result of the Productivity Commission work, that the taxation of fuel will not increase?
MARLES:
Well..
FIFIELD:
Yes or no?
MARLES:
Well the Productivity Commission is not the Government. And the Government has said that the bowser will be exempted from the carbon price now and forever. And that’s a guarantee.
FIFIELD:
What about other taxes? Will you increase the fuel excise? Why commission this work if there is going to be no increase in the price of petrol?
MARLES:
There have been taxes on fuels under successive governments, including yours. No one is scared of new ideas in relation to that. But the thing is, this Government has made it absolutely clear that…
FIFIELD:
New ideas read: new taxes.
MARLES:
Not at all. The Government has made it clear that there will be that bowser will be exempt from the carbon price now and forever. That is rock solid. We’ve got an agreement with the Greens in relation to that…
FIFIELD:
What about in relation to fuel excise?
MARLES:
We’ve got an agreement in relation to the Greens with that and that is important to know.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, what happens when the tax is introduced and people go to the bowser and they realise they’re not being hit as Tony Abbott said. They’re getting the tax cuts in their pocket, their pension increases are you concerned that people will realise that the sky hasn’t fallen in?
FIFIELD:
What Labor are really doing here is a bit of a con. Let’s accept for a moment that there won’t be a carbon tax affecting petrol. What that will mean is that the carbon price will have to be higher on other products to make up for that shortfall. The narrower the base for a tax, the higher the rate.
MARLES:
The carbon price is only on one thing and that’s C02 emmisions! It’s not like it’s on products. That’s part of the scare campaign! There’s this notion that the carbon price is being paid on a whole lot of products it’s not. It’s paid by the thousand largest polluters on their C02 emissions.
FIFIELD:
If I could finish. What it will mean is that the carbon price will have to be higher. There’s no escaping this carbon tax. People will pay it, regardless. And I come back to the point before, that there is no reason for the Government to commission this Productivity Commission inquiry into the taxation of petrol unless their intention, and the Greens’ intention, is to increase taxation of petrol.
MARLES:
No…
GILBERT:
Beyond that you can respond Richard but I also want to ask you about the implication for truckies and big business. How is that going to work? Is it going to be done based on the size of the vehicle or what?
MARLES:
Well we’ll see how that comes when the detail of this is announced in terms of exactly how that measure is put in place, but what’s important to understand is that the agreement which was announced yesterday is that for small businesses and households, the petrol bowser will be exempt from the carbon price. But the point I was going to make is that we now know 3 million Australian households will be better off as a result of the compensation in the carbon price package…
FIFIELD:
No we don’t, because we have not seen the complete package. You’ve only release a few elements.
MARLES:
…we know that 9 out of 10 Australians will get some compensation as a result of the carbon price package.
FIFIELD:
And we’ve only got Julia Gillard’s word for it. Julia Gillard’s word and we know how much that’s worth.
MARLES:
What we understand is that you can reduce this country’s dependency on C02 emissions without affecting the livelihoods of ordinary Australians. That’s what’s going to happen. That’s what the Government is going to do. And when it is done, we will see that the scare campaign which Mitch is running today and is being run by the Opposition is a complete scam.
FIFIELD:
Then release the package, for heaven’s sake!
GILBERT:
That’s right. People are asking, ‘where’s the detail?’ The Government is saying, ‘look, everything’s fine, there’s no need to worry.’
FIFIELD:
‘Trust us!’
GILBERT:
It’s being done incrementally: drip-fed out.
MARLES:
It’s being done incrementally because we have been as open and transparent about the negotiations and what’s been happening as it is possible to be.
FIFIELD:
If you ignore the lie before the election, and the secret meetings since.
MARLES:
All of this these are arguments only for the next period until the detail is announced…
FIFIELD:
How long? A week? A month? Two months?
MARLES:
The detail is going to get announced, and once it happens once the detail is announced, you will have no argument at that point…
FIFIELD:
Then release the package!
MARLES:
…because it will be completely clear that the emperor has no clothes and this scare campaign is nothing but hot air.
GILBERT:
I we’re sitting here next week, next Monday, and the detail is out there, does the Coalition have to find another gear, or are you just going to continue along the line you have? Is Mr Abbott’s approach sustainable?
FIFIELD:
We want to see the detail. That’s what we’ve been arguing for all along. Take the Australian people into your confidence. Release the whole package. Once the package is released, we can examine it.
GILBERT:
OK, well it’s a new-look upper house today. The Greens are taking the balance of power as of today in the Senate. Does the Government need to be cautious and aware of the perception out there that the Government’s agenda is being dictated by Bob Brown?
MARLES:
We’re a very different party from the Greens and that is completely clear. And you know, today really isn’t a vastly different situation to what we’ve faced since being elected to Government. Because in the last Senate, we knew that if we wanted to get legislation through the Senate, we had to do so by reaching agreement with the crossbenches. That will continue from now on, it’s just that the make-up of those crossbenches is a little different. But of course…
GILBERT:
What about the perception that Bob Brown is running the show?
MARLES:
Well Bob Brown is not running the show, and we are a very different party to the Greens. But the only way the crossbenches come into play is if we continue to see this obstructionist campaign being run by the Opposition. If they take the responsible line and start working with us on Government legislation, then the Greens aren’t in the picture at all.
FIFIELD:
But you won’t even tell us the detail of your carbon price!
MARLES:
They’re only in the picture because the Liberal Party bring them into the picture, and that’s the important thing to understand. When Labor and Liberal divide on a resolution in the Senate, the Liberal Party will be just as keen to reach an alliance with the Greens in blocking legislation as we will be in working with the crossbenches to get legislation through.
GILBERT:
So should the Coalition be more positive in trying to get your agenda through the Parliament, given that you could work with the Greens and have the numbers quite clearly.
FIFIELD:
We are being positive.
MARLES:
You could have fooled me.
FIFIELD:
We have a number of private members’ and senators’ bills on the books which we’re endeavouring to get through the Parliament. So we have been positive. But there is one thing I will agree with Richard on. He said things won’t be that much different this week to last week. That’s right in the sense that last week Labor were in a formal governing alliance with the Greens. And this week, Labor are in a formal governing in the Greens.
MARLES:
That’s ridiculous.
FIFIELD:
Richard said it’s ridiculous. Well, there’s actually a document we all remember the civil union the signing ceremony with sprigs of wattle on the lapel…
MARLES:
Yes, but the Greens aren’t in Government. You know that.
FIFIELD:
What I said is that the Greens have a formal governing alliance with the Labor Party. That is a fact.
MARLES:
You’re playing with words.
FIFIELD:
No, that is a fact. And if the Greens are really as extreme as Julia Gillard says, she would rip up that agreement. She can’t have it both ways. She can’t be in a governing alliance, and also say these guys are extremists.
GILBERT:
OK, one last issue. Is Tony Abbott being too cautious when it comes to his strategy more generally? Malcolm Turnbull apparently has sought to do weekend media interviews the last two weekends only to be knocked off by Mr Abbott’s office saying, ‘no, sorry, you can’t do it.’
FIFIELD:
I don’t think Malcolm Turnbull is someone who can be gagged…
MARLES:
Well he has been gagged.
FIFIELD:
…nor Barnaby Joyce for that matter. We have pretty robust members of our Coalition and our Party members work cooperatively when it comes to media appearances and that will continue.
GILBERT:
But do you think Mr Abbott is doing enough of the long form interviews to face scrutiny and stand up to it?
FIFIELD:
Absolutely. Tony is incredibly accessible, far more so than Julia Gillard has been and far more so than Kevin Rudd was before.
MARLES:
Kieran, far from working cooperatively, the Opposition is working divisibly, and that’s why the muzzle is being put in place. We know that there’s a whole lot of Opposition members who want to bring back WorkChoices, half of them agree with us on the carbon price. What we know that this is taking the small target strategy to a new level. An electron microscope would not pick up a hint of a policy within the Liberal Party Room today.
FIFIELD:
Paid parental leave, our mental health policy we’ve got plenty of policy.
GILBERT:
Gents, great to see you both. Thank you for that. That’s all we have time for today on AM Agenda.
ENDS