Transcript – Sky News AM Agenda – 24 October 2011

Sky News – AM Agenda

Kieran Gilbert and Andrew Leigh MP

 

24 October 2011

 

8:40am

E & OE

 

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

We’ll go to our panel now, joining me here in Canberra is the Labor MP Andrew Leigh. And in Melbourne, Liberal frontbencher Senator Mitch Fifield. Senator thank you for your time this morning, I want to start with you if I can. You heard what Tony Windsor said there; he’s happy to sleep at night if there is a backlash against him on the carbon price, but he thinks that things will turn around eventually. What do you say to his comments this morning?

 

MITCH FIFIELD:

 

I don’t think that the public’s view about a carbon tax will change. I don’t think the public’s view about the competence of this Government will change. Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott made a decision after the last election to support Julia Gillard and the Labor Party into government, in an alliance with the Australian Greens. You’ve got to take people at face value. They obviously thought that the Gillard Government would be a competent government. They obviously thought that the carbon tax was a good idea, because they stuck with the Government after they announced the carbon tax in a breach of their promise. But I think the field evidence is in. It’s unequivocal. This is the most hopeless government in Australian history, and the public definitely don’t want a carbon tax. I would hope that Mr Oakeshott and Mr Windsor would look at that field evidence, and that they would seek to reflect the wishes of their constituents.

 

GILBERT:

Andrew Leigh, I know that you never comment on the opinion polls, but 70% of people in these seats are opposed to the carbon tax. Even with margins of error, that is quite a task ahead in terms of trying to convince people.

 

 

ANDREW LEIGH:

 

Kieran, one of the things that Tony Windsor pointed out that I think is important is that we’re in a representative democracy. And that means that people like Tony, like Mitch and myself have an obligation to walk into Parliament and do what we believe is right. We should always be out there listening, I held my mobile offices on the weekend at Dixon and Gungahlin, talking to constituents, but at the end of the day our job is not to take opinion polls and reflect them faithfully in Parliament. If that was our only job, you’d replace us with little machines that poll the electorate daily and the robots just walked into Parliament. We actually have to weigh things up. We have to look at what’s in the interest of the long term future of the country – putting a price on carbon pollution is absolutely in Australia’s long run interests. That’s why every Liberal leader, except the current one, supports putting a price on carbon pollution.

 

GILBERT:

And what about the pressure on these independents? There has been a lot of talk about the leadership on your side of politics. Do you think that their support of Julia Gillard needs to be factored in here, given how precarious things are in each of those seats?

LEIGH:

 

There will always be chatter Kieran, but I don’t think that they’re focussed on that chatter and I’m certainly not. This is unsourced scuttle which is distracting from the big decisions – putting in place a national disability insurance scheme, pricing carbon pollution, getting Australians a fair deal from the mineral resources that are theirs – something that the Liberal Party still opposes. These are big important reforms, not just for this year or the next year, but for decades to come.

 

GILBERT:

Senator Fifield, what do you say to the point made by Andrew Leigh there, regarding the fact that governments and leaders need to adopt policies where they feel they are right, even when the opinion polls might be against them. That’s a decent principle, is it not?

 

FIFIELD:

 

I couldn’t agree more with Andrew, and I didn’t reference the polls in terms of Mr Oakeshott and Mr Windsor. What I was taking about was the field evidence – which is what Andrew would have picked up when he was out at the weekend, what Mr Oakeshott and Mr Windsor would pick up as they’re out and about in their communities talking to their constituents. I was out at the weekend doing a mobile office as well, and I’ve got to tell you, I was bowled over in the rush of people who came up saying, ‘Tell me, how can I help stop this carbon tax? Tell me, how can we remove this bad Government?’ So it’s very important that people heed what their constituents want. That is a very different thing to being slavish to the opinion polls. But this Government haven’t actually done what Andrew said should be the model for governing, which is stating your principles, stating your policies and implementing those. Julia Gillard said before the last election that there would not be a carbon tax under a government she led. She’s doing the exact opposite of what she said. What she should do is go back to what she promised before the last election.

 

GILBERT:

In terms of taking feedback from the electorate and elsewhere, obviously the business community in the last week have raised concerns about the Coalition’s approach to possible uncertainty through them not being able to buy future permits – this being power generators – and other uncertainty about investment in Australia. Does the Coalition need to provide a bit more detail on that front, and do it soon?

 

FIFIELD:

 

The Business Council of Australia and the Australian Industry Group have basically said that the carbon tax is a dog of a policy. Certainty is important, but the uncertainty here has been entirely created by this Government. It was created by a government that said they wouldn’t introduce a carbon tax, and then they are. It’s created by a government which is at odds with the will of the Australian people. That’s why we have this uncertainty, because you have a government at odds with the will of the Australian people, and ultimately when that’s the case, the people’s will will prevail. But the other reason that we have this uncertainty is because this government knows that we will repeal the carbon tax in government, and yet they’re determined to put it in. It’s madness.

 

GILBERT:

On that point, Andrew Leigh, if the Coalition does repeal as it’s promising, this is one hell of a fight, and a lot of fuss over something which is going to be gone anyway. You’re taking the moral high ground when it comes to the opinion polls, that’s fair enough, but you need to also be aware that the reform in place might not be there once you’re kicked out of government.

LEIGH:

 

Kieran this is classic Tony Abbott and his nattering and negativity. They want to not only wreck, demonise and spread mistruths about the current policy, let’s remember this is the Opposition Leader who said a carbon price would cause towns to be wiped off the map, would cause petrol prices to rise, although we know petrol’s not in the carbon price. So it’s not surprising that he’s now going about future-wrecking as well as current-wrecking. That long term price on carbon pollution and the ability of businesses to buy forward-dated carbon permits is absolutely critical to business certainty, which is important for long term investment. What does that long term investment mean for households? It means lower electricity prices, because you get more investment in electricity generators. One of the reasons we’ve had electricity prices rise by 40% over the last three years is that we have had so much uncertainty. Tony Abbott wants that uncertainty to continue.

 

GILBERT:

 

Gentlemen we’ll take a quick break and we’ll be right back on AM Agenda.

 

BREAK

Welcome back to the program. With me, Liberal Senator Mitch Fifield and Labor MP Andrew Leigh. Andrew, on the issue of asylum seekers, we’ve seen three vessels arrive at the weekend. Four have arrived since the Government’s offshore processing plan was scuttled – unable to get the numbers in the Parliament. Does this show that people smugglers and their networks capitalise on the impasse here?

 

LEIGH:

Well certainly Kieran every new boat that we see coming needs to be put down to Tony Abbott’s willingness to put politics before the national interest on the issue of asylum seekers. Labor has worked hard to get a regional solution, because we recognise there are millions of asylum seekers in the world. We need to work with the countries closest to us – Indonesia and Malaysia – which at the moment are not UNHCR signatories.
 

GILBERT:

 

But those arguments are fine, if you were able to deliver on the frameworks which you had set up and which you had hoped to deliver on. But you can’t. Surely, people will hold the Government accountable regardless of the finger-pointing here?

 

LEIGH:

 

There’s two things that have gone on. One is a High Court decision which I think very few legal experts expected. We then sought to change the law to restore what everybody had understood to be the position – that offshore processing was allowed. Tony Abbott decided to block that in his own narrow political interests. So every additional boat that arrives people should recognise is Tony Abbott’s boat.

 

GILBERT:

 

It’s not a good look though, is it? When boats arrive and there is finger-pointing, and the impasse leads to a policy which neither side supports?

 

LEIGH:

 

We had the Secretary of the Department recently making absolutely clear that when Mr Abbott says ‘just go back to Nauru,’ he is utterly wrong on that. A Nauru-only solution will not deal with the challenge of people drowning at sea.

GILBERT:

 

Senator Fifield, is it time for both sides to sit down and put this above politics? It’s been going on for so long that this issue has been a political football and now we see this ridiculous impasse where there’s a policy in place which neither side supports and people smugglers capitalising on it.

FIFIELD:

 

We did put this beyond politics. We offered to make one very simple amendment to the Government’s legislation, which would require offshore processing to be done at nations that were signatories to the UN Refugee Convention. But I’ve got to say, this line that comes from the Government that everything is Tony Abbott’s fault – newsflash – we’re not the Government. You are. It’s pathetic. ‘Everything is Tony Abbott’s fault.’ It’s pretty clear, the boats were coming before the High Court decision. The boats were coming before the Malaysian solution was mentioned. The boats were coming before the East Timor solution was floated. The boats started to come when this Government won office. The boats started to come when this Government dismantled our border protection policies – when they abolished temporary protection visas, when they abolished offshore processing. That’s the reason the boats started to come. They’ve been playing catch up ever since – looking for ways to stop the boats. What they reject is those very policies which we know work. TPVs. Offshore processing at Nauru.

 

GILBERT:

 

Okay, Andrew just quickly?

 

LEIGH:

 

Kieran this solution that Mitch puts forward has been rejected by the Secretary of the Department. It is very clear we need a regional solution, what we started in Bali is what we’d like to continue.

 

GILBERT:

 

So the impasse continues. Gentlemen, thank you for your time. Andrew Leigh, Senator Fifield –  thank you very much.

 

LEIGH:

 

Thanks Kieran.

FIFIELD:

 

Thank you.

 

ENDS