Transcript – Sky News AM Agenda – 9 July 2012

Sky News AM Agenda

With Kieran Gilbert and Nick Champion MP

9 July 2012

8:45am

E & OE

KIERAN GILBERT:

Joining me now on the program from Melbourne, Liberal frontbencher Senator Mitch Fifield, and from Adelaide, Labor MP Nick Champion. Gentleman good morning this Monday. Nick to you. On the Greens, it’s been a while coming hasn’t it? The need to differentiate Labor from the Greens and I suppose push back against the sentiment that minor parties have too much power in this hung parliament.

 

NICK CHAMPION:

Well look, I think these latest comments are really coming out of New South Wales, because what we’ve seen in New South Wales is the Greens hand more or less absolute power to a conservative coalition in the New South Wales Upper House. We’ve seen some very strange decisions in that parliament by the Greens and I think what this is, is if you like, a reaction to that. Federally obviously we’ve had some common ground with the Greens over the pricing of carbon and other things. But there are some pretty clear differences as well. The most obvious area is offshore processing and in the previous parliament, the previous area of difference was the emissions trading systems. So I think, you know, this is a sort of, if you like, work in progress. I think all parties will cooperate on some issues and you know, have their differences on others.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

You don’t think it reflects also a frustration federally at that difference that you referred to on asylum seekers. The fact that you compromised on a carbon tax caused a lot of political flack, and now no such compromise from the minor party on the asylum seeker issue. No budging at all.

 

NICK CHAMPION:

Well of course the only thing that hands the Greens power in the Senate is when the Liberal Party vote with them. And that’s what happened on both the emissions trading system in the last parliament, and of course in this parliament it’s happened on offshore processing. In the last week of parliament we saw the Liberals and the Greens voting together to sink offshore processing. That was very disturbing. I don’t think that it was in the national interest, and I don’t want to harp on about it but I think it was the opposite to what the Australian people wanted to see, which is, if you like, both the major parties in a grand bargain to resolve that issue.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

Tony Abbott says it’s a ‘phoney fight’, Senator Fifield it doesn’t look that phoney at the moment to be frank.

 

MITCH FIFIELD:

Of course it’s a phoney fight. Are we seriously meant to believe that as Julia Gillard was signing her civil union agreement with the Australian Greens, that Sam Dastyari was having sleepless nights? That he was inconsolable about what the Prime Minister was doing. Are we really meant to believe that Paul Howes’ mobile phone was bust? That he lost all his contacts and then for the first time in his life he was completely unable to phone media outlets as the Prime Minister was signing an agreement with the Greens. I mean give me a break. The reason that agreement was signed by the Government with the Greens was to give a sense of momentum to their negotiations with the independents. That was the sole purpose of that agreement. There was always going to come this day where there was this staged bust-up with the Australian Greens. But we can’t take it seriously. If the Greens are as evil as the Government say they are, and on our side of politics we think they are, but if the Government really believes that then they would not have signed their formal governing alliance with the Australian Greens in the first place. They would not be, in effect, partners in governing this nation. We can’t take this confected bust-up seriously. If it is serious, well then the Government will rip up the agreement with the Australian Greens today. But I bet they won’t.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

Nick Champion I’m not sure how big a fan you are of world championship wrestling, but that was the analogy used today by Tony Abbott. That this is as confected as one of those bouts.

 

NICK CHAMPION:

Well look, Tony’s said a lot of things, and most of it is a bit hysterical and overblown, and I think that sort of fits into that category. Look the point I think that does need to be made is that the Liberals talk a good game, they sort of talk like Tarzan and act like Jane with the Greens. When it’s in their political interest to do so, they certainly vote with the Greens, they certainly vote with the Greens when it suits them. So they voted with the Greens on the emissions trading system, they voted to preference the Greens in the seat of Melbourne, which put us in this situation in the first place of a hung parliament, and they also voted in the last week of this last parliament to sink offshore processing. So you know they talk a big game on the Greens but I’m afraid their rhetoric doesn’t always match their actions on this front.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

On the asylum seeker issue, Senator Fifield I know your frontbench colleague Scott Morrison had been working very vigorously in that final week of parliament to get the Greens on board to some compromise with your approach. So you are willing to work with them from time to time, aren’t you?

 

MITCH FIFIELD:

Of course you talk to all parties in the parliament from time to time, piece of legislation by piece of legislation. But Nick seems to be completely ignoring a fundamental difference between the Liberal Party and the National Party and the Labor Party. And that is that we’re not in a formal governing alliance with the Australian Greens. I mean, hello. It’s just bizarre for Nick to say that somehow the Liberal Party is in cahoots with the Greens when it’s the government; it’s the Labor Party who are in a formal governing alliance with the Australian Greens. What we’re seeing I think, manifesting itself, is a belated realisation that the party which the government is in an alliance with is cannibalising their base. It’s not rocket science to figure out that the Australian Greens want to displace the Australian Labor Party. There is an obligation on mainstream parties in Australian politics to deal with the cranks on their flanks. The Liberal Party dealt decisively with One Nation to the right of us. The Labor Party have a particular duty, and a particular obligation to put the Australian Greens out of business. And to date they have not taken up that obligation, they have not taken up that duty. They have a responsibility to see the Greens off and to put them out of business.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

Nick, the government was confident of its legal advice with the Malaysia deal, of course infamously that was knocked over. You’d be hoping that wouldn’t be the case here, as it would leave an unfortunate hole in the budget.

 

NICK CHAMPION:

Well loo, I guess we have to leave court cases to the High Court. I mean you can’t predict outcomes I don’t think, you can only be confident in the advice that you get. So, you know look, I think the only thing we really can make a commentary on is the fact that the Queensland Government has decided to turn their backs on Queenslanders, turn their backs on small business, on workers who want superannuation increases, and on the general community that wants infrastructure to be built, in favour of siding with big mining companies and big mining magnates. I think that that’s a bit of a curious decision for a state government to take. It’s certainly not in the national interest.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

Senator Fifield, of the two taxes which came into effect on July 1 there is one which is a lot more popular than the other, and it’s the mining tax. People seem to have come around to that one.

 

MITCH FIFIELD:

I’m not sure if you can say that the mining tax is a popular tax, Kieran. But I can understand why the Queensland Government has decided to take this action. They obviously have advice that they have an arguable case. The Queensland Government wants to make sure that there is investment certainty. That’s the real downside of the mining tax, that in a competitive global environment, mining companies have a choice as to where they invest. If they can see that there is greater regulatory and taxation certainty in other jurisdictions, then they will invest there. What that means is that there are projects which won’t happen and jobs which won’t be created. This is a bad tax. It’s going to cost jobs, and as with the carbon tax we’re determined to get rid of it.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

On the asylum seeker issue now Senator Fifield, the opposition leader yesterday didn’t deny the suggestion that it wasn’t raised with the Indonesian president the coalition policy that is of turning back the boats. The Prime Minister said that it was cowardly of the opposition leader. Why wouldn’t you raise it with the president if it looks like the coalition as it does at the moment, is going to win the next election? Wouldn’t it be good to put this out there sooner rather than later?

 

MITCH FIFIELD:

The Indonesian Government is well aware of the Coalition’s policy and what our policy would be as an incoming government. What Tony Abbott isn’t going to do is practice the megaphone diplomacy of the Rudd and Gillard governments. He has conversations with leaders in our region. He doesn’t go broadcasting those conversations. He would have canvassed a range of issues, but we’re going to observe confidences with our near neighbours and we’re not going to do what Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard have done, which is often broadcast the contents of their conversations and often misrepresent the content of those conversations.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

That is a fair enough point, but the bottom line is that Indonesia’s not going to cop the policy. They’ve said it previously. The foreign minister said as much in this parliament a few months ago when he met Bob Carr for the first time. I was at that news conference and he made it very clear that they’re not going to cop turning back the boats. So why continue the case on that when you know that the Indonesians won’t accept it?

 

MITCH FIFIELD:

The Indonesian Government is responsible for making policy for Indonesia, and the Australian Government is responsible for making policy for Australia. There are large areas of agreement. We won’t always agree on all issues. But we will do what we think is necessary to maintain our sovereignty. The fact that their prime minister finds objectionable a policy of turning back the boats where it’s safe to do so means that she is quite happy to concede an element of our sovereignty. We’re not.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

There’s another boat Nick Champion. It just shows you what this stalemate is achieving – absolutely nothing. And the government’s going to cop all the flack because you’re in power and you’ll be the ones held accountable for it. You haven’t been able to get the compromise that the Prime Minister was able to get as she has said many, many times on the carbon tax, but unable to work with the parliament on this issue.

 

NICK CHAMPION:

Well Kieran as I’ve moved around the parliament, what I feel from my constituents is what they want, whether they’re conservative or social democratic, whether they’re Labor or Liberal, is that they want us to work together to reach a solution on this. They want us to negotiate with one another and have a grand bargain. And what we’ve seen is a stalemate in the last week of the last parliament, and the Liberals and the Greens voting with each other against offshore processing. Now we hope when parliament resumes and we have the expert advice from the Houston panel, that we can get some parliamentary agreement on that. What is needed to isolate the Greens is the Liberals and Labor to put away their guns if you like, and work together. I hope that that’s what will happen when the parliament resumes and I think it’s the most important thing to occur. I think there are elements of each approach that have merit, and I think that we should focus on where we agree rather than where we differ.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

Do you personally think the government should just cop the coalition’s approach and be done with it?

 

NICK CHAMPION:

Well no.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

You say it’s going to work, let’s try it.

 

NICK CHAMPION:

Well Kieran, whenever I suggest a grand bargain, the interviewer says well why don’t you just cop the coalition’s policy in its entirety?

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

It’s a grand failure at the moment, it’s not a bargain.

 

NICK CHAMPION:

Well Kieran, to bargain you need two partners, and I’d prefer those partners to be Labor and Liberal because I think if we work together as Australians, we can come to some conclusion on this. We can’t do that while, if you like, the Liberal Party has a set of key lines which they’re determined and committed to simply in their own partisan interest and not in the national interest. You heard Mitch there reel off key lines in response to some very genuine concerns about this turning back the boats policy. I think you know, it sounds superficially attractive but when you get into the detail of it, it endangers the lives of our ADF personnel potentially, we’re dealing with reckless and desperate people on the high seas. We need to be very, very careful as it may well upset our neighbours, and it’s an open question as to whether that was the most successful part of what John Howard did.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

Senator Fifield that point about the defence being involved in this, they’ve expressed concerns themselves. The former chief of the defence force last week expressed that worry. Mr Abbott yesterday was unrepentant about it, says that people join the military, that they know they’re getting into a dangerous job and so there.

 

MITCH FIFIELD:

It’s the role of the civil power of the day to set the broad parameters within which the Australian Defence Force work and it’s the role of the civil power of the day to task the Australian Defence Force. How that actually plays out in an operational sense obviously is a matter for the navy itself. We haven’t argued to the contrary. The government sets the tasks and then the navy outline the detail as to how that will practically be put into effect. The important caveat here is where it is safe to do so.

 

KIERAN GILBERT:

Gentlemen we’re out of time, thanks for today.