25 February, 2013
Sky News AM Agenda
With Kieran Gilbert and Andrew Leigh MP
25 February 2013
8:45am
E & OE
Subjects: Debt, education, Joan Child
KIERAN GILBERT:
Joining me now Labor MP Andrew Leigh, and Liberal frontbencher Senator Mitch Fifield. Gentlemen I want to get to the schools funding in a moment as discussed with Peter Garrett before the break but first of all, let’s look at some developments overseas at the weekend. The UK lost its triple-A credit rating from Moodys. Senator Fifield, I want to put to you first of all something that I think the Government will argue throughout the week, that the UK loses its triple-A credit rating, Australia retains it from all of the ratings agencies. Doesn’t that comparatively a sign of just how good Australia’s doing?
MITCH FIFIELD:
It’s good that we have and retain our triple-A credit rating. I think the verdict that we saw over in the UK is really a verdict on the previous Labour administration there and the debt that they ran up. And that’s a warning for us, is that big debts start as a result of smaller debts getting gradually bigger. And under this Government, we’ve had a situation where they inherited a debt-free Government, that they’ve racked up the best part of $250 billion-plus in gross debt, net debt north of $170 billion. Now they’re big numbers. Thank goodness we have retained our triple-A credit rating but you don’t ever want to take that for granted. This Government has shown it has no capacity at all to keep spending under control. They’ve not delivered a single surplus budget which is one of the reasons we are very keen to form office is to live within our means. To get spending under control. To make sure that our triple-A credit rating is not under threat.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Andrew Leigh, let’s get your response to this argument from Senator Fifield that the current state of play in the UK reflects badly on previous government’s for wracking up that debt? It’s a slow burn rather than something which is going to happen overnight. Is it a wake up call to your Government?
ANDREW LEIGH:
Well Kieran let’s have a look at the economic numbers overall. Since the end of 2007 the Eurozone shrunk two per cent, the US has only grown two per cent. We’ve grown thirteen per cent over that period. In that process we’ve accumulated a modest level of debt. Ten per cent of GDP, the equivalent of a household earning $100,000 a year having a $10,000 mortgage. And we did that in order to support jobs. And the contrast with the United Kingdom is really clear. So the Conservatives in the United Kingdom are so keen on austerity right now that they’ve thrown their economy back into recession. That leaves you with debt too but it’s a debt that’s measured in young lives that are blighted by unemployment. It’s a social debt which is far more damaging to future generations than the modest economic debt that Australia has acquired and we’ll soon be steadily reducing.
KIERAN GILBERT:
So it’s a balancing act isn’t it Senator Fifield, in terms of how much goes out the door in terms of to save jobs, to keep jobs and employment healthy. That’s going to be one of the key arguments that obviously Labor will make against the Coalition’s bid for election this year. That your cuts will cost jobs and growth.
MITCH FIFIELD:
You want to be careful. You want to cut waste. You want to cut inefficiency. And that will be our priority. But I think what Andrew’s confirmed, is that the current Government has absolutely no intention of seeking a budget surplus. We know that they’ve basically given the game away for the current financial year. But I think what Andrew is saying is forget it for future Labor Governments.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But you know surpluses aren’t necessarily always good are they? The automatic stabilisers need to be able to work.
MITCH FIFIELD:
But it’s nice to have one occasionally. And there hasn’t been one under this Government and there won’t be one under six years of this Government. Not in any year. Wayne Swan will go down I think in a unique class of his own as a treasurer who never delivered a single budget surplus. A treasurer who served the entire period of a government. That’s extraordinary.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Andrew Leigh, it’s a pretty potent political attack there that the Coalition can use, as they’ve done relentlessly against the Government, you haven’t delivered one. In fact I think the favourite line is about Wyatt Roy isn’t it, that Wyatt Roy the youngest Member of Parliament wasn’t even alive the last time Labor delivered a surplus.
ANDREW LEIGH:
Which is of course wrong. But this is the sort of argument that will be used by the Coalition frequently. And what we need to argue frequently and forcefully, Kieran, is that Australia’s debt is modest by international standards and that those who claim we should not have had debt are effectively saying that we should have thrown 200,000 Australians onto the unemployment scrapheap when the global downturn came. We are paying down that debt. We’ve made over a hundred billion dollars of savings. And we’re facing an international environment in which the tax share of the economy is at historic lows. And so if we had the tax share that the Howard Government had we’d be $20 billion in surplus. If they had the tax share we currently have then many of Peter Costello’s budgets would have been deficit budgets. That’s just the international reality. We have to recognise that when we get a write-down in revenues, that affects the bottom line and your choice is whether to cut to the bone and actually throw people into unemployment or whether to maintain responsible economic process.
KIERAN GILBERT:
We’re going to have much more economic debate throughout the year. I want to move on to schools funding and this fight that’s being reignited with the states. Are the states playing politics with this, short-term politics about the vision of national reform as Mr Garrett argued before the break?
MITCH FIFIELD:
Not at all. Peter Garrett and Julia Gillard have been remorselessly playing politics with education funding. There was this absurd situation where the Federal Government was saying to the states ‘you’ve got to sign up to Gonski’ and the states quite reasonably said ‘well ok, take us through the detail, take us through your funding proposition’. And Peter Garrett said ‘oh no, no, we’re not going to give you a funding proposition until you give us a funding proposition’. Well hello. This is actually the Federal Labor Government’s educational reform proposals so the onus is on them to put an offer on the table first. Particularly since the majority of the schools that we’re talking about are actually owned and run by the states and school education is the preserve of the states.
KIERAN GILBERT:
That’s the point I want to put to Andrew Leigh, is Paul McClintoff, former COAG Reform Council chairman quoted in the Financial Review saying education is more complex, referring to other former agendas like disability because undoubtedly the states see education as one of the remaining areas where they have the prime role. And they’re going to cling to it. You saw that over the weekend. This is not going to happen, is it?
ANDREW LEIGH:
I understand states desire to maintain control Kieran, but I was seconded to the Federal Treasury when we were working on an important round of education reforms for states. And what I was struck by and looking at the state education budgets was how little needs-based funding there was. How little difference there was in the support that they gave to children with disabilities, children of non-English speaking backgrounds, children from disadvantaged schools. Through My School we’ve now provided the information that’s necessary to target disadvantage. And what we’re saying to the states is you’re education systems are not performing as well as they should be, they’re not up to the level of the Asia Pacific. In some cases they’re behind where they’ve been in past generations and so we think there’s a national role as Minister Garrett outlined in improving school performance for all children, and particularly the most disadvantaged.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Let’s finish on a bipartisan note I guess. This is the sad news at the weekend that Joan Child, the first female Speaker of the House of Representatives passed away. She was 91 and a role model for many politicians, particularly many female politicians, Andrew.
ANDREW LEIGH:
I remember when I first started listening to Question Time, Kieran, it was Joan Child who was chairing it in that period from ’86 to ’89. So as a young kid I always thought that Question Time was when the blokes shouted at one another and Joan Child as the capable, sensible woman kept them in check. Amazing woman, five children, worked as a cleaner and then rose to the ranks of Speaker and I think has been, as you say just a great role model for generations to come.
KIERAN GILBERT:
And it surprised me Senator Fifield, that Joan Child entered Parliament I think it was 74, which just seemed very late for the first female member of the ALP to be in the House of Representatives. You forget sometimes just how long it took for women to have that sort of representation and she led the way in many respects becoming Speaker.
MITCH FIFIELD:
She had an impressive career and it was an important achievement to become the Speaker. At the last Remembrance Day I was at the Dandenong RSL and a serving member of Victoria Police came up to me and asked if I knew or was aware of his mother. And that serving police officer was the son of Joan Child. And he was extremely proud of her. So condolences to their family.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Condolences absolutely. Five children, I think five boys, and an amazing career to be able to achieve that despite all the pressures of being a single mother. Amazing. And our condolences on behalf of Sky News as well to the family. Andrew Leigh and Senator Fifield, thank you very much for that.