TRANSCRIPT
Of
SENATOR MITCH FIFIELD
Sky News AM Agenda
Ashleigh Gillon & Senator Mark Arbib
18 August 2008
8:30am
E & OE
SUBJECTS: Peter Costello, guest worker scheme, FuelWatch, luxury car tax
ASHLEIGH GILLON:
Well today yet another poll puts Brendan Nelson’s leadership in doubt. Voters think Peter Costello would be a better leader than both Dr Nelson and the Shadow Treasurer Malcolm Turnbull. Joining me in Sydney is the Labor Senator Mark Arbib and in Melbourne, Liberal Senator Mitch Fifield. Thank you both for joining us. Firstly to you Senator Fifield, yesterday we saw the Shadow Foreign Minister Andrew Robb acknowledge there is a limit to the Party’s patience when it comes to waiting for Mr Costello to make up his mind about his future. How much longer do you think Peter Costello can drag out the decision?
SENATOR MITCH FIFIELD:
Well Ashleigh I know a number of commentators are saying that Peter Costello has to declare his position. As I said a couple of weeks ago, Peter did that the day after the election. He was very up front. He indicated that he wasn’t available for the leadership and that remains the case today.
GILLON:
Well if that is the case, what is delaying him coming out and saying that again to put an end to all of this speculation which surely is damaging the Party?
FIFIELD:
Well Ashleigh as I say, Peter has made his position clear. You can come out and give a daily commentary on these sorts of issues, but he was very up front. He did the right thing by the Party the day after the election and said that he was not available for the leadership.
GILLON:
Well next week in Melbourne there is a tribute dinner for Peter Costello. Do you think then we might have some sort of announcement to end this speculation?
FIFIELD:
Well that dinner is going to be a wonderful night, a night to acknowledge some of the terrific contributions that Peter made to Australia as Treasurer and as Deputy Leader of the Party. It will be a time to remember when the Australian economy was strong, when we had a competent economic team in charge of the economic levers of Australia. So it will be a great night for remembering how Australia fared under the previous Coalition Government and I think a lot of Australians are looking back increasingly fondly at the economic stewardship of the previous government. We’re seeing that this government is finding the job of actually running an economy a little more difficult than they thought it would be.
GILLON:
Well Senator Arbib how concerning is it for the Government that voters are obviously looking for the return of Peter Costello? Is this a sign that they are concerned about the way Labor is steering the economy?
SENATOR MARK ARBIB:
I don’t think that’s what this poll said and this poll is pretty expected, very similar to a poll that came out about three or four weeks ago in Newspoll that showed similar figures for Peter Costello. I’m actually a bit surprised that his numbers didn’t go up over the last three or four weeks given all the hype surrounding the book campaign or the campaign for leadership, we’re not sure yet. But again, what this is really about is not personalities. It’s about Liberal Party policy. What is their policy? What is their view on climate change? You’ve got the climate change deniers, half the party, you’ve got some who believe in it, some want to go back to WorkChoices. They really don’t know where they stand on it. It was quite interesting listening to Mitch reminiscing about the good old days of the previous government, or the so-called good old days. Tony Abbott, exactly the same thing on the weekend in The Australian where he was saying ‘we were a very good government, our problem was we did too much. The reason we lost government was we did too much.’ And I think the majority of voters would disagree with them. I mean the neglect, the neglect of the previous government in terms of education where education funding went down. The neglect in healthcare. The neglect on climate change. I mean it just speaks volumes for the way they view themselves. On the other hand, so you’ve got eleven years of neglect, Kevin Rudd and Labor are actually getting on with the job and doing things. Rolling out computers in schools, the green car initiatives, I mean it goes on and on. Look at the Murray in terms of $3 billion put aside and now fast-tracking. These are the things that Labor’s working for. So no, I don’t see that as a problem.
GILLON:
Well Senator Arbib this poll also shows that Kevin Rudd’s satisfaction rating has dropped six points to its lowest ever. Is that a sign perhaps that the tide is turning against the Government?
ARBIB:
It is pretty tough out there at the moment. We’re facing global fuel crisis, global agricultural crisis and global banking crisis. So obviously it is a tough time to be governing. Kevin’s figures are still extremely high. To have a leader on 60% is quite amazing so I don’t view that as a huge issue. But in terms of the Opposition again, you’ve got Peter Costello, you’ve got Brendan Nelson, you’ve got Malcolm Turnbull, but they really don’t have the policies and they don’t have an idea where they stand on the big issues. And I think that’s probably more important for voters at the moment.
GILLON:
Well moving on to the guest workers scheme announced yesterday. Here’s the Agriculture Minister Tony Bourke explaining why the Government thinks it’s necessary.
TONY BOURKE:
…they’re sick of seeing their fresh produce rotting on the vine for the simple reason that they can’t get workers. This is not a cheap labour scheme, it’s a labour shortage scheme. This does not allow for there to be any reduction in the wages. In fact, for employers, it’ll be marginally more expensive to access this scheme than it would have been had Australian workers been available.
GILLON:
The Shadow Foreign Minister though, Andrew Robb, has doubts about the scheme, let’s have a look.
ANDREW ROBB:
There are lots of issues there – what about some of the bad elements around some of the big cities in some of the region? How do they make sure that they don’t end up here as part of the scheme? I’m sure they have covered this off, but we don’t know about it. We’ve got 100,000 people more on the unemployment pile over the next 12 months – does the community want to bring in more unskilled workers when we’re facing greater problems at home? These sort of issues need to be debated…
GILLON:
Senator Arbib, are there any guarantees that Australian workers won’t be displaced through this scheme?
ARBIB:
We’re facing a chronic shortage of farm labourers. Look at this morning at The Australian in terms of one of the citrus growers down in Victoria. An amazing amount of his produce rotting on the vine. They need people. They need workers to go out there and do this manual work. I think the announcement made by Tony Bourke yesterday was a win-win. It’s a win for Australia’s farmers and it’s a win for the Pacific Island community. It’s a chance to get workers over here to do the jobs that aren’t being filled, meet the skills shortage. At the same time it’s a chance to provide assistance to the Pacific Islands. For them, you’ve got these workers coming here learning best practice farming mechanisms, they’re getting an income, this money is going back to the Pacific Islands obviously and that’s good for their economic security and their political security. So it’s a win-win. Amazingly, we’re seeing the National Farmers’ Federation supporting it, we’re seeing the Australian Workers’ Union supporting it. And it is not too often that you ever see those two groups coming together and supporting something. So I think overall this is going to be a great result for Australia and also a great result for the Pacific Islands.
GILLON:
Well Senator Fifield, warnings there by Mr Robb of so-called ‘bad elements’ perhaps coming in to Australia. Is that a real concern? It sounds an awful lot like a bit of a scare tactic.
FIFIELD:
Not at all. The Opposition have a few questions about the scheme as Andrew Robb said. What will be the checks in place to ensure the integrity and character of people who seek to come to Australia under this scheme? We also have to ask the question why this scheme is only looking at the horticultural sector. There is a shortage of unskilled workers throughout a number of sectors of the economy, so why is horticulture the only sector which is going to benefit from this scheme? We also need to take into account the reaction of some of our near neighbours whose citizens aren’t eligible for this scheme. We have to be very mindful of the relationships we have with our near neighbours. But also interestingly, and worryingly, the Government is proposing to bring to Australia thousands of workers at the very time that their own budget is forecasting an increase in the number of unemployed Australians. So we want to see the details of this scheme and there are a number of questions which the Government do need to answer.
ARBIB:
We shouldn’t forget though as well this is only a pilot scheme. We’re only talking about 2,500 workers going into Swan Hill and into Griffith. So it hasn’t been rolled out across the board. It’s a pilot scheme in cooperation with the National Farmers’ Federation and industry and now with the unions on board, so let’s….I think you’re right Ashleigh, we can start seeing the seeds of a scare campaign from the Liberals here. Sort of Pauline Hanson-esque, talking about, you know…
FIFIELD:
No…
ARBIB:
…Pauline Hanson-esque talking about the credentials of some of the Pacific Island people coming in…
FIFIELD:
Not at all. One of the problems…
ARBIB:
Well it, Mitch, it is, it is Mitch, Mitch it is…
FIFIELD:
…one of the problems with this Government is that it can’t actually take a decision. If it’s not a review or an inquiry it’s a pilot scheme. This Government can’t ever actually implement a fully fledged and thought out policy in the first place. There are always questions which still have to be answered and there are always more reviews around the corner. Why can’t this Government actually come out with a policy that they’ve given serious and proper thought to and put it in place?
ARBIB:
Mitch you can’t have it both ways. You can’t oppose it and then support it and say we should roll it out completely. We’re doing what we think…
FIFIELD:
I’m just saying have a proper policy that you’ve thought through.
ARBIB:
We have thought it through and that’s why we’re rolling this out this way.
FIFIELD:
Clearly not.
ARBIB:
It’s something that is supported, again Mitch, you guys had eleven years to do something about this. You had eleven years to do something about the shortage, the chronic shortage, in the horticulture industry and you failed. And it’s actually the farmers coming out and supporting the Labor Party on this. The farmers supporting the Labor Party, these are traditional National Party voters supporting what Labor is doing. Andrew Robb is the Shadow Foreign Affairs, it’d be interesting to talk to the Shadow Agriculture Minister and see what he says about it. And see what the National Party members say about it. Because when you go out into the country areas and you talk to these farmers, they need the workers. Here is a solution, here is a start of a process, so Mitch I can’t believe you’re actually criticising this when actually it’s going to help farmers, and it’s going to make sure there’s more food on the table.
FIFIELD:
There clearly is a shortage of labourers, a shortage of workers, and it’s not just the horticultural sector. So it’s an entirely valid question to ask why is it just being limited to the horticultural sector? And it’s also an entirely valid question to ask what thought has the Government given to bringing in workers in the context of a budget forecast which is actually predicting an increase in the number of unemployed Australians? This is the Government’s scheme. The Opposition is merely asking questions and the Government can’t give the answers.
GILLON:
Well gentleman we do need to go to a quick break. Next on AM Agenda we’ll look at the new balance of power in the Senate and the chances of it perhaps leading to a double dissolution, that’s next.
Break
Welcome back to AM Agenda. I’m joined in Sydney by the Labor Senator, Mark Arbib, and in Melbourne by the Liberal Senator, Mitch Fifield. Well last week we were reminded of the new balance of power in the Senate with the Independent South Australian Senator, Nick Xenophon, threatening to block the FuelWatch legislation. Despite that yesterday the Treasurer, Wayne Swan, said the Government remains committed to fighting for the scheme. Let’s have a look.
WAYNE SWAN:
We think it’s a very important part of having a more competitive petrol market, and we intend to fight for it in the Senate. The Liberal Party appear to be siding with big oil who don’t want consumers to know where they can get the cheapest petrol at any price cycle. Well we do, so we are going to get up there and fight for this measure.
GILLON:
Mr Swan went on to say that the FuelWatch scheme could save motorists $10 a tank of petrol. Mark Arbib, there’s no proof or evidence suggesting that figure is there?
ARBIB:
Well no, he’s extrapolating it out on 2 cents a litre, but certainly…
FIFIELD:
He’s dreaming.
ARBIB:
Well you say that Mitch but where was your solution in terms of petrol. We’re out there actually putting forward a positive…
FIFIELD:
5c a litre cut in excise…
ARBIB:
…we’re out there putting a positive plan. It’s worked in Western Australia, we’ve seen it in Western Australia, ACCC say it’s going to work. We’re going to put it forward in the Senate. Nick Xenophon’s got a position, so does Steven Fielding and we’re going to negotiate with them. This is a new Senate and the Liberals don’t control it, we don’t control it, we’re going to have to negotiate. Chris Bowen is going to be meeting this week with Nick Xenophon and hopefully they’ll make some progress.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield, what do you see as the chances of a double dissolution, perhaps within the year if things continue like they have with this rocky start?
FIFIELD:
Who knows? If a double dissolution is called, it’s ultimately up to the Prime Minister of the day to call an election. What our concern is, is this half-baked scheme, FuelWatch, which actually doesn’t promise to cut fuel prices. It actually could potentially increase fuel prices. Labor should put this scheme aside, admit that they’ve got it wrong, go back to the drawing board. Or simpler still would be to adopt our proposal of a 5c cut in fuel excise which would give real relief to motorists today. That’s what the Government should do. I can’t believe that the Government is pursuing a scheme which a lot of analysts, a lot of economists, actually think could potentially see motorists paying more for fuel. That’s a crazy situation.
ARBIB:
Mitch how are you going to pay for it? This is the one thing gets said over and over, ‘we’ll just cut petrol excise.’ But you never say how you’re going to pay for it. You never say how it’s going to wipe off billions of dollars off the surplus. Doesn’t matter, you’re in opposition so you don’t have to say it, that’s going to be your answer obviously. But FuelWatch is a solution that has worked in Western Australia. There’s no doubt about it. Figures are in in Western Australia, it has cut it. I mean, we are talking about providing more information to consumers. I mean what is wrong with providing more information to consumers?
FIFIELD:
But just on that point, a 5c per litre cut in excise from the current level of excise…
ARBIB:
How are you going to pay for it Mitch? How are you going to pay for it?
FIFIELD:
The current level of excise, there’s nothing sacred about that. It’s being viewed as though it’s something that’s been ordained as the natural level of fuel excise. Fuel excise at the end of the day is just a tax. It’s just another tax, and you’re either in the business of lowering taxes or you’re not. We’re in the business of cutting taxes where it’s possible, where you can. This is something which can be done, which can be done immediately and would provide real relief for motorists.
ARBIB:
But Mitch, how are you going to pay for it? How are you going to pay for it Mitch?
FIFIELD:
Mark, how are you going to pay for your proposed pension increases? You cut your cloth to match. And that’s exactly what we would do if we were in government, we would make sure that we’re able to responsibly deliver it. But it is just a tax, it’s just another tax. It’s not sacrosanct. You want to do something, you say, to provide real relief for motorists. Rather than having this half-baked FuelWatch scheme which actually could see motorists pay more, why not adopt our policy which will see real relief for motorists?
GILLON:
Let’s just have a quick look at another piece of legislation that has a question mark over it, that is the luxury car tax. The Greens have signalled that they’ll look at voting against that tax but, Senator Fifield, we’re still yet to hear what the Coalition intends to do despite a lot of noise being made about it for some weeks now.
FIFIELD:
In relation to the…sorry Ashleigh I just missed that?
GILLON:
Oh just the luxury car tax.
FIFIELD:
Well let’s wait and see. The luxury car tax is a crazy tax. It’s a tax on innovation. Putting aside your Mercedes Benz and your Porches, there are a lot of vehicles below those levels which aren’t luxury cars. In many cases they’re more expensive than other vehicles because they have the latest in safety technology. We don’t want to price that safety technology out of reach of everyday Australians. But since the luxury car tax has been introduced, that sector has taken a hit. There’s been a reduction in sales. The chamber of automotive manufacturers has said that there will most likely be staff layoffs. So it’s an odd tax at a time that the Government is talking about ways of supporting the Australian automotive industry. What happens in the Senate, well we’ll wait and see. There’s an inquiry into that legislation taking place. The onus is on the Government to convince us that this is actually a good tax, that it’s something other than a revenue grab. We remain to be convinced.
GILLON:
Well Senator Fifield we’ll look forward to that decision. We have run out of time. Labor Senator Mark Arbib and Liberal Senator Mitch Fifield, thank you for joining us again on AM Agenda. Be sure to watch this afternoon’s Olympic version of Agenda at 4:15, that’ll be hosted live by David Speers in Beijing. I’ll be back with AM Agenda tomorrow. Until then, I’m Ashleigh Gillon, thanks for your company.
ENDS