TRANSCRIPT
Of
SENATOR MITCH FIFIELD
Sky News AM Agenda
Ashleigh Gillon & Senator Mark Arbib
25 August 2008
8:30am
E & OE
SUBJECTS: Budget measures, economic statement, alcopops tax, new Senate, school truancy welfare measures, guest workers scheme, Malcolm Turnbull, Peter Costello
ASHLEIGH GILLON:
Let’s go straight to our panel now. Joining me here in Canberra is the Labor Senator Mark Arbib and the Liberal Senator Mitch Fifield. It’s nice to have you both back in town. Welcome back after the Winter break. Of course, Mark Arbib, this is certainly the start of a new era isn’t it, this week?
SENATOR MARK ARBIB:
It is, certainly for me, my first sitting so very exciting. Labor’s back in town, it’s going to be a challenging Senate. Obviously we don’t have the numbers in the Senate. The Coalition will be able to determine a fair bit of the legislation we’re putting forward. It’s been interesting to see Brendan Nelson’s comments. They’re going to be blocking a great deal of our legislation and that’s quite worrying, especially in these uncertain economic times, to have the Coalition blocking some major revenue matters. Something like a $3.7 billion black hole. So really, there’s going to be some questions about what the Opposition will do.
GILLON:
Well Senator Fifield this really is a balancing act of the Coalition isn’t it, as Mark said, looking at which measures to block?
SENATOR MITCH FIFIELD:
I’ve got to say I do feel like laughing when I hear talk of a black hole and talk of us being irresponsible in carefully examining measures to come before the Senate. A black hole is what we inherited. We inherited a $10 billion budget deficit. We inherited $96 billion of Commonwealth Government debt from the Labor Party. That’s a black hole. And we were opposed every step of the way in balancing the budget by Labor. So that is irresponsibility. What we’re talking about is responsibility. Doing the right thing. Doing what people expect of the Opposition. Doing what people expect of the Senate. And that is carefully examining legislation.
GILLON:
It does seem like the economy is going to be the overriding issue in question time this week. Brendan Nelson is calling on the Government to provide an economic statement. Here’s a bit of him explaining why.
BRENDAN NELSON:
…what are the fundamental strengths of the Australian economy. What are the economic circumstances facing Australians at the moment with falling growth, higher unemployment and it seems higher inflation. And most importantly what are the Government’s specific policy prescriptions to address the challenges that this country now faces.
GILLON:
Senator Arbib there’s nothing to hide is there? What’s wrong with providing a statement of where the economy is at and where it’s heading?
ARBIB:
We do that every day. And we’ve been open and honest in terms of where the economy is. We’ve talked about the amazing international pressures that we’re under. International banking crisis, international fuel crisis, international agricultural crisis. On top of that, the United States economy, staggering, stagnating. Look at what’s happening in Britain at the moment and the European economy. This is a very very difficult time internationally. And this time, as well, we set up a budget process, we calibrated the budget to, one, help working families. Huge budget relief in terms of tax cuts, child care rebate, education rebate. At the same time as that, we prepared for the economic challenges ahead with a huge surplus, a $22 billion surplus. And what the Coalition’s doing now in terms of their Senate strategy, their blocking strategy, is to actually create a black hole of $3.7 billion, could be up to $6.1 billion depending on what they block, which will certainly threaten our economic security. It says a lot more about the Opposition and more about their tactics and the way they view Government, or view Opposition, than what we’re actually putting forward.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield the budget is a pretty hefty document that looks at the future of this area, isn’t that enough?
FIFIELD:
This is a government that just won’t take responsibility. I’ve noticed of late that Kevin Rudd has been expanding the length of time we were in office from 11¬ and a half to 12 years and reducing the length of time that he’s been in office from 9 months to 6 months. He in the last week or so has said ‘oh we’ve only been in office for about 6 months.’ They’ve been in office for 9 months. Now you can do some serious things in 9 months. You can conceive and give birth to a child in 9 months. But this government is increasingly looking like the political equivalent of deadbeat dads. They talk big, they promise the world early in the relationship, but further down, further along the track, they’re nowhere to be seen, they’re full of excuses, they’re always going to do something. What Brendan Nelson is proposing with an economic statement is an opportunity for the Government to say what they’re going to do. We have real problems. We’ve got rising inflation, rising unemployment, growth is slowing. This economic statement could address those issues and spell out what Labor’s actually going to do. It’s something which has been done before. Paul Keating put out his ‘One Nation’ statement which addressed those very issues. While we mightn’t have agreed with his solutions, at least he was prepared to put a plan on the table to address those circumstances.
GILLON:
Well the Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner thinks the best way to address those issues is to get the Coalition to give the budget a safe passage through the Senate. Here he is speaking yesterday.
LINDSAY TANNER:
We had government spending increasing by over 5% per annum in real terms when we took office, putting big upward pressure on inflation and interest rates. We’ve had to get that under control. We have – the Reserve Bank now is at least able to contemplate the possibility of putting interest rates down. We think the Liberals should get out of the road in the Senate. They’re trying to effectively sabotage that by knocking big holes in the surplus. They should just pass the Budget.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield let’s just go through some of the bills that could be blocked. It seems like FuelWatch is doomed. But when we’re looking at the budget measures, the alcopops tax hike looks like it will also be blocked. What about the luxury car tax? Any decision on that yet?
FIFIELD:
Well we’ll wait and see. The Senate has a report, the Senate Committee, which we’ll carefully consider. But the onus should be on the Government to spell out why these are good taxes. These taxes weren’t flagged by the Government before the election so Labor can’t claim any sort of mandate theory here. They’re new tax slugs. They weren’t flagged. But more importantly is why does the Government have to introduce these taxes when they didn’t flag them before the election? Labor are trying to propose that we’re going to punch a hole in the budget. Even if we do block some of these measures, that’s not going to put the budget into deficit. The budget will still be in surplus and very strongly in surplus. In fact, even on a no-policy-change basis, from when we were in government, the budget still would have been in a surplus of about the order of magnitude that we have at the moment. What we’re proposing, even if we do block some of these measures, isn’t going to put the budget into deficit. There’ll still be a strong surplus. So to try to compare this situation to the one which we inherited when we came into office I think is totally misleading. And I don’t think that the RBA for one second is about to come out and say that even if some of these tax measures were blocked that it would be in any way inflationary. In fact, probably to the contrary, new taxes are inflationary. So I’d be more worried about the inflationary impact of these new taxes than if they didn’t go ahead.
ARBIB:
I can’t believe I’m hearing this from Mitch. Is this the mighty Liberal Party in terms of their economic credibility? You’re talking about a black hole, about blocking revenue and then the answer is ‘oh well, we’ll just spend a bit of the surplus.’ I mean Peter Costello would be turning at the moment, he couldn’t believe it. I can’t believe I’m hearing it from you Mitch. Look, this budget has been put together for two reasons. One, to help working families. And that was something from the start we put forward. Childcare tax rebate, 30% to 50%, education tax refund and also the tax cuts. At the same time as that, helping working families, we’re also, big big surplus. Big surplus, $22 billion, to secure our economic future. Now to sort of say, “well really, the size of the surplus doesn’t matter,’ and you can just sort of dip into it is just economically irresponsible. And that’s not just what Mitch here is saying, it’s also what Brendan Nelson is saying and also what Malcolm Turnbull is saying. And that would have a huge huge effect on our economy. The Reserve Bank is setting rates after looking at our budget. If we just sort of say ‘well it’s not a $22 billion surplus now, it could be 21, it could be 20, it could be 19.’ Well that’s going to have an effect on interest rates. There’s no doubt about it and the Reserve Bank will have to take that into account. So I just think that is just totally economically irresponsible and it just shows now that the Opposition and the Liberal Party has just given up. Given up on good economic management.
FIFIELD:
Not at all. The tax cuts which have been introduced, which Labor claim, are tax cuts which we authored. The tax hikes which Labor are introducing are all…
ARBIB:
Oh now they’re your tax cuts…
FIFIELD:
…are all Labor’s. The tax cuts are ours. The tax rises are yours. But tax rises can be inflationary. Labor don’t appreciate that. Labor promised before the election that they would build their surplus on savings. Labor have come up with a whole new concept and that is to count revenue measures as savings. Even if we do block some of…
ARBIB:
I don’t think you guys should be talking about savings Mitch.
FIFIELD:
…even if we do block some of these taxes, it’s not going to have any inflationary impact. The inflationary impact is actually more to be found in tax hikes.
GILLON:
Well the Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson had something to say about this topic as well yesterday.
NELSON:
…none of those tax increases, $20 billion in tax increases in the budget, were foreshadowed by the Government prior to the election. There are a number of those measures that we are concerned about. If you’re fighting inflation the last thing you do is increase taxes on alcohol, cars, software and other functions of business…
GILLON:
Two other issues though that Brendan Nelson didn’t mention there. Lifting the Medicare surcharge levy and also ending the tax concession on condensate. These two seem to be issues as well that may be blocked. What’s the update?
FIFIELD:
On the issue of condensate, again, there’s a Senate Committee which has examined that. This was yet another tax which wasn’t flagged before the election. Industry has indicated that the condensate tax would be passed on to consumers. So it’s higher costs for consumers. Again, Labor said that they wanted to help working families. This is a very odd way to help working families. In fact there was a very interesting Galaxy poll in The Daily Telegraph today which found that 80% of Australian households are finding it harder to manage the family budget than before Labor came into office. So I think that’s a very interesting statistic.
GILLON:
Well just picking up on another point. You said that you were waiting for these Senate inquiries to be finished. Why though with the alcopops tax were you so quick to make a decision before that inquiry was completed?
FIFIELD:
Well Brendan made a call which we all agreed with that the alcopop tax was an incredibly blatant and outrageous revenue grab. That it was a complete fraud and a con. That it was presented as a health measure whereas it’s anything but. Evidence from the industry shows that, in fact, overall spirit consumption has increased. It’s not a health measure. It’s a revenue grab. And Brendan called it quite rightly for what it was.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib thinks this is quite a humorous note I can tell.
ARBIB:
You’re relying on information from the industry? I mean that’s crazy. Of course they’re going to say it’s a tax hike. Talk to some of the medical specialists who are actually out there supporting this measure saying it will have an effect. Talk to some of the doctors, go to the hospital emergencies. Talk to the police. Talk to the police commissioners in the states and find out what they think about it, what effect it will have on binge drinking and also the links to violence in pubs, in clubs…
GILLON:
There’s no evidence so far though. This tax has been in for a while.
ARBIB:
Well there’s not yet. Well I haven’t seen any yet. But at the same time as that when you talk to the medical professionals they’re totally supportive of it. Let’s talk about what the Opposition did on binge drinking the other day. Brendan Nelson called everybody together. He had his own forum to try to come up with a policy. He stood up and said ‘oh we’re not going to talk about the alcopops tax, forget it..’ So he just, he didn’t even deal with it as an issue. So the professionals in the room who actually supported it didn’t even get a chance to have their say. So Mitch on that one I don’t think we should be listening to the industry. The industry of course is going to put forward a case, the spirit industry, that they don’t want to be taxed. Of course they are. But at the same time as that we should be talking to the medical professionals. The people who are seeing the effects of binge drinking in the hospitals, in the pubs, certainly, as I said, the police.
FIFIELD:
But those who are selling across the counter say that they’re, obviously, selling fewer alcopops but they’re selling more full strength spirit. In fact more full strength spirit to more than compensate for the reduction in alcopops. So if you’re going to introduce a health measure, let’s have a health measure that actually does something. Let’s pursue education. But let’s not introduce a tax slug and call it a health measure when it’s anything but.
ARBIB:
Well I don’t think I’d be relying on the industry figures at all Mitch.
GILLON:
We do need to go to a quick break but we’ll be back with our panel to look at the new balance of power in the Senate. That’s coming up next.
Break
Welcome back to AM Agenda. Well of course the fate of the budget could lie in the hands of the minor parties and as the Finance Minister, Lindsay Tanner, said yesterday this could pose quite a big risk for the government.
SENATOR NICK XENOPHON:
…400,000 Australians didn’t vote for the major parties in the Senate. They voted differently between the Lower and Upper Houses so basically Senates do have a watchdog role. Australians don’t want a rubber stamp Senate. And as we’ve seen in the past I think that Senates sometimes can save governments from themselves.
SENATOR BARNABY JOYCE:
We got some decisions wrong, the previous government, and that’s why we’re out of government.
GILLON:
Well that of course was the South Australian Independent Senator Nick Xenophon who is not wasting any time letting everybody know that he expects to be a major player in this new Senate, but let’s just have a look now again at what Mr Tanner had to say yesterday.
TANNER:
Dr Nelson is fond of describing himself and the Liberal Party as the alternative government. It’s about time they start acting like an alternative government. Because minor parties have no responsibility – they will never be in charge of the nation’s affairs. They can say and do anything and not be accountable for it. Whereas the Opposition has a responsibility to the wider community because they could conceivably be the government. They are the issue. The only reason that the minor parties’ votes even matter is because Dr Nelson and the Liberal Party are trying to take an axe to the Budget…
GILLON:
Senator Fifield it’s a whole new ball game, isn’t it? The Coalition really is going to have to try to get these independents on side.
FIFIELD:
What’s curious watching Lindsay Tanner is that if you listen to Labor you’d think that they had created when they were in opposition some sort of Senate nirvana for the Coalition Government. I don’t recall it being like that. I recall having to battle every step of the way to get legislation through the Senate. And Labor at the time said that they were providing appropriate scrutiny, doing the job of an opposition, doing what the Senate should. We’re taking Labor at their word that they actually had the best intentions of the country in mind when they were in opposition. We’re going to be pursuing the national interest. We’re going to be carefully looking at legislation. We’re not going to pass it if we think it’s against the national interest. And of course we’ll be talking to the minor parties as well, taking their views on legislation. But this government should not take the Senate for granted. The Senate has a mind of its own and the Senate will be doing its job.
GILLON:
Senator Arbib is it frustrating for the Government to think that someone like Family First Senator Steve Fielding, he got around 2,500 direct votes at the last election yet now he’s such a powerful figure in this new Senate setup.
ARBIB:
I don’t think it’s frustrating. This is the state of play of the Senate. It’s something we’ve got to get used to. It’s a different Senate. We’re going to have to negotiate with all the parties and all the independents in the Senate. But certainly, as Lindsay Tanner said, the Opposition has the largest block of Senators. They’ve got 37 Senators. In the end, they are setting themselves up as an alternative government. So we will be looking to them to show some responsibility. In these tough economic times, these really uncertain international times, what the Australian people need economically is certainty. And you can’t have certainty when you’ve got an Opposition who’s out there saying ‘we’re going to block this measure, this measure, this measure, this measure,’ and don’t say how the hell they’re going to fund it. So in the end the Government, the country could be left with a $3.7 billion black hole, it could be a $6.1 billion black hole, we just don’t know.
GILLON:
Well also today a story that’s floating around is this legislation that will be tabled this week which could see welfare payments to parents whose kids don’t turn up to school be blocked. Is that something that does have Coalition support?
FIFIELD:
I think it’s a great idea. Anything we can do to help get kids to school we should do. If there’s a mechanism which can encourage parents, even through a punitive measure, to get their kids to school, then it’s certainly worth looking at. But I just wish that we had Labor’s support when we first introduced the concept of mutual obligation into social welfare and when we first started talking about quarantining welfare payments and when we first introduced tougher work tests. It would’ve been terrific to have Labor’s support at that time. But I think that this proposal is one that is well worth looking at and supporting.
GILLON:
But depriving families who are probably going to be the families who are most under pressure at the moment, of these welfare payments, is it really the right path to go down?
ARBIB:
Well we’re suspending, but at the same time as that, all kids should be going to school. In this day and age there is no reason why a child should not be going to their local school. If you want to break welfare dependency, if you want to actually help kids – white kids, black kids get jobs, then they’ve got to get an education. As part of the Government’s commitment to increase retention rates, we want to increase retention rates from 75% to 90% by 2020, this is the first step in doing it. Certainly I’m fully supportive of it, glad to see Mitch is as well, and it’s the first time on Monday morning we’ve been able to agree on something so I’m ecstatic!
GILLON:
Good to see! This morning Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is meeting with Xanana Gusmao. He’ll be holding a news conference which we’ll show live shortly on Sky but East Timor wants its workers to be involved in this new guest workers scheme the Government announced a couple of weekends ago. Do you think we can expect to see some movement on this to extend the scheme so early in the piece to East Timor?
ARBIB:
Well I’m not sure. The talks will happen today. But our position is pretty clear. This scheme is going to go into trial with 2,500 workers in Griffith and Swan Hill. The country is crying out, the horticultural industry is crying out for workers. There is fruit that has been rotting on the vine and this program that’s been put forward with hopefully do that. At the same time as that, the Opposition, totally, totally divided on it.
GILLON:
Well yeah let’s move to that. Mitch Fifield it seems like Nationals MPs are pretty keen for this scheme to go ahead. Is this, can we see a position finally from the Opposition this week after Shadow Cabinet do you think?
FIFIELD:
Well the Opposition isn’t opposed to what the Government is doing. All we’ve said is that there are some important questions which should be answered, such as, why only a certain number of near neighbours have been chosen to take part in this scheme. Why, for instance, is a country such as East Timor left out of it? That’s an important question. What consideration has the Government given to introducing a scheme like this at a time when their own budget forecasts an increase of 100,000 unemployed? The RBA now are predicting another 100,000 on top of that. We’re not saying this scheme shouldn’t happen, but we want to know more details about how it will be implemented and also what consideration the Government has given to this scheme in the context of rising unemployment.
GILLON:
Ok well just finally, the Shadow Treasurer Malcolm Turnbull will be making a star appearance on the ABC’s 4 Corners program this evening. We’ve had a few little grabs, bits and pieces that have already been leaked out, about what’s on that program. Julie Bishop and Tony Abbott both giving glowing reviews about Malcolm Turnbull and what sort of future they think he has. Is this him starting to position himself for a challenge do you think?
FIFIELD:
Look I doubt it. 4 Corners make their own decisions as to which subjects they choose for their Monday night programs. We’ll wait and see what 4 Corners has, but Malcolm is certainly a huge asset to the Opposition and he’s making life extremely difficult for Wayne Swan.
ARBIB:
I expect it will be colourful, knowing Malcolm, I’m sure it will be colourful.
GILLON:
We’ll all definitely be looking forward to that. But on this 4 Corners program though, obviously Malcolm Turnbull has been the one waiting in the background. Peter Costello is the other Liberal leadership option that everyone’s been talking about. There was a Victorian Liberal Council meeting over the weekend and Peter Costello was absent. Was there any reason for that do you think?
FIFIELD:
I imagine he had some other engagements. We all do our best to get to State Council but we don’t always make it. But it was a terrific weekend. A terrific opportunity to highlight some of Labor’s shortcomings, their lack of leadership in the economy, and an opportunity for us to show that we’re an opposition that has alternative policies. So yes, it was a great time.
GILLON:
But now that Parliament is back this is really just opening up the Party to continuous attacks. I can only wait to see what the Government comes up with in question time today.
FIFIELD:
Well hopefully they’ll come up with some policy proposals to address rising unemployment, rising inflation and a slowing economy. It’s why Brendan Nelson said that it’d be a good idea for the Government to issue an economic statement and hopefully we’ll hear Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan commit to that tomorrow.
GILLON:
Well Brendan Nelson has hinted that Peter Costello will be making some sort of statement about his future in, he said ‘shortly’ I think, so do you know any sort of timing. Do we really have to wait for these memoirs to come out next month?
FIFIELD:
I’ve got no idea. No idea at all. As I say, Peter flagged his intentions the day after the election and that’s where it is.
ARBIB:
Come on Mitch, tell us when the coronation is going to take place. When will Prince Peter become King Peter? It’s only a matter of time, come on! What’s he waiting for? Bring it on!
GILLON:
We’ll all look forward to next week maybe there’ll be more to discuss. I know I keep asking you about it every week. But I probably will until it’s all resolved.
FIFIELD:
Feel free Ashleigh. Always here and happy.
GILLON:
Alright well thank you both for joining us on Agenda and Mark Arbib to you good luck for your first week in the Senate.
ARBIB:
Thank you.
FIFIELD:
Good luck Mark.
ARBIB:
Thanks mate.
GILLON:
That’s all we have time for in this AM edition of Agenda. Be sure to join Kieran Gilbert this afternoon at 4:15 eastern for the PM edition of Agenda. I’ll be back tomorrow morning. Until then, I’m Ashleigh Gillon, thank you for your company.
ENDS