TRANSCRIPT
Of
SENATOR MITCH FIFIELD
Sky News AM Agenda
Ashleigh Gillon & Senator Mark Arbib
27 January 2009
8:45am
E & OE
SUBJECTS: Unemployment, the economy, workplace relations, whaling
ASHLEIGH GILLON:
The Prime Minister’s decision to cancel a trip to Switzerland to attend the World Economic Forum has prompted speculation that the Government will soon unveil another economic stimulus package. Joining me now from Sydney is the Labor Senator Mark Arbib and from Melbourne, Liberal Senator Mitch Fifield. Thanks both for joining us, hope you enjoyed the break.
Senator Arbib, firstly to you, today Julia Gillard will meet here at home with welfare groups. Is it likely that there will be more funds, do you think, for the unemployed, considering that the Government is expecting so many job losses this year?
SENATOR MARK ARBIB:
Well we’ve said, and we’ve heard the Prime Minister say in his speech over Australia Day, it’s going to be an extremely difficult year, an extremely difficult 12 months. And overnight we saw in the US, unemployment growing, we’ve seen now General Motors putting of 2,000 workers. We’ve seen Caterpillar 20,000 workers globally, they’re going to put off. ING now, out of Europe, now saying they’re going to sack 7,000 workers. So, unemployment is going to rise, there’s no doubt about it, globally. As we move from a global banking crisis to a global recession. So the focus of this Government has been and will continue to be jobs, and we’ve put in place a stimulus package, a $10.4 billion stimulus package in October. We’ve now spent something like $36 billon. We’re in the process of $36 billion over three months to stimulate the economy and to protect jobs. Today’s meeting between Julia Gillard and the work providers is part of the process to ensure that the country is prepared for the next 12 months, to ensure that our job providers have the resources they need to ensure that charities have the resources they need to deal with growing unemployment. And this is something which is happening globally, its not just something that is happening here, and with what we’ve seen recently in the United States going further into recession and now China slowing down, it is going to be a difficult 12 months.
GILLON:
So Senator Arbib, does that mean that you would like to see another economic stimulus package unveiled sooner rather than later? Is that is what’s needed?
ARBIB:
Well the Prime Minister and the Treasurer have both said ‘everything is on the table.’ We’ve put in place a huge package so far, and the Reserve Bank has been doing their bit in terms of cutting interest rates, and obviously we’ve got a budget coming up in May. So I mean every option is being looked at in terms of fighting unemployment and ensuring that the economy remains strong.
GILLON:
Senator Fifield, how important do you think it is that the Government can offer some sort of compassionate solution for those that are facing job losses this year?
SENATOR MITCH FIFIELD:
It is important to be compassionate, it is important to be understanding, it’s important to help those that find themselves out of work because of circumstances beyond their control. We do have one of the most compassionate social welfare systems in Australia. But what is concerning me is that the Government is now putting its focus on unemployment. I think we should be having our focus on employment. Making sure that we are keeping Australians in jobs in the first place. I hear the Government talking every day about the importance of jobs, yet the Government is introducing industrial relations legislation, which we know is going to cost jobs. The Business Council of Australia says that, ACCI says that, the Mining Council says that Labor’s industrial relations system is going to cost jobs. Why you would pursue that approach when jobs is the greatest concern in the Australian community, I’m not sure. It’s a strange approach, and you will never hear any figure on the Labor side say that the reason they’re pursuing their industrial relations changes is to create jobs, because they know that’s not the case. That’s why they’ve not got Treasury to model the industrial relations changes to see what the effect on unemployment will be. That’s why they haven’t got the industry department to model the effect on unemployment. Because they know what the result will be that this legislation will lead to an increase in unemployment.
GILLON:
So Senator Fifield, even though thousands of people are expected to join those job, ah, unemployment lines this year, you don’t think there needs to be any sort of changes to the welfare system as it is?
FIFIELD:
Well we have a very good and a very generous social welfare system by international standards. Obviously, if you can do something, to make things a little easier for those that are out of work, of course you should look at that. But I think that the focus should be on making sure that the Australian economy continues to grow, that unemployment remains low, and that the budget stays in balance. Those should be the three focuses for this Government for this year. They were the focuses we had every year, but sadly it looks as though the Government is not going to do too well on the employment front, they’re not going to do too well on the growth front, and that the budget will go into deficit. So if the Government focuses on those three tasks, that’s the best way to help Australians.
ARBIB:
Ashley can I just jump in?
GILLON:
Senator Arbib one option that is being considered is tax relief for low income earners. Is this something the Government is serious about, do you think, we should see some movement on this soon?
ARBIB:
I read that in the newspaper this morning and that is the first time that I’ve seen it. The truth is that the Prime Minister and the Treasurer have both said that all options are on the table, in terms of ensuring the economy, well ensure that we stimulate the economy. But can I just return to something that Senator Fifield said for a second. First off, today’s meeting is about ensuring that the system, our welfare system and our charities, are prepared for the coming year, and also to talk about being compassionate to the unemployed. Because remember its not their fault if they lose their job, this is a global, global recession we are dealing with at the moment. What we are seeing in Australia is being replicated ten times over around the world, with most of the developed world now in recession and slowing growth in the developing countries, but at the same time as that can I say…
FIFIELD:
…many people will lose their jobs because of this Government, because of their policies…
ARBIB:
…we are focused on growth, and we are focused on employment, creating employment, that’s what the stimulus package was about, trying to instil confidence, trying to put money back into the economy. That’s why we’re bringing forward Infrastructure spending, $300 million just for local Government, we’re also talking about bringing forward $5 billion as part of our nation building scheme. This is all part of creating jobs, protecting jobs, but the one thing that really amazed me, well it doesn’t amaze me because he’s pretty typical of Mitch and pretty typical of the Coalition, when they talk about jobs and when they talk about employment, they always revert back to Workchoices. Once again we go back to them trying to bring back their old legislation, which absolutely ripped away working conditions…
FIFIELD:
Mark, do you think your industrial relations legislation will increase employment in Australia?
ARBIB:
…hang on, hang on Mitch…
FIFIELD:
That’s the question you have to answer.
ARBIB:
You had your go Mitch. You gave a speech recently and it’s quite important that we get the speech out there because right now you’re putting out excuses, because in your speech, Mitch, to the Young Liberals, you did say that we should return to our core principles and core ideology in terms of Workplace relations. And that means one thing, returning to Workchoices. Because that’s what you believe in, and it’s not just you Mitch, Tony Abbott said something very, very similar.
FIFIELD:
No, it means giving people the right to sell their labour on terms suitable to them.
GILLON:
Lets get Senator Fifield’s response to that, should let him have his response to that. Tell us about that speech Mitch.
FIFIELD:
Sure. I gave a speech at the Young Liberals, saying that it is important that the Liberal Party focus on the fact that one of the best ways to increase jobs, one of the best ways to increase employment, is to have a flexible labour market, where people can sell their own labour on terms suitable to them, without unwanted or unnecessary union interference. We saw unemployment reach record lows while we were in Government, and one of the reasons for that was because of our more flexible labour markets. One thing you didn’t hear Mark Arbib say is that Labor are introducing industrial relations legislation in order to increase employment. You didn’t hear Mark say that, you’ve never heard a Labor figure say that because it won’t, they know it won’t. They know that their industrial relations system will see a reduction in employment. Now I’m not saying we should go back to Workchoices, that legislation is dead. What I am saying is that it is important to maintain flexibility in the labour market. It is important to allow individuals to sell their own labour on the terms that suit them, on the terms that they agree to with their employer, and to do that without union interference. And we are seeing day after day, business organisation after business organisation, arguing exactly that same case. Even those groups who aren’t saying abolish the legislation altogether, say at least please delay its introduction. Because they know that it is going to be detrimental to employment in Australia. And if, as we think, jobs are the most important thing, if the Government really believes that jobs are the most important thing, then we’ve got to do everything we can to make sure that we maintain as low an unemployment rate as possible. Now, of course, we will be affected by the global financial situation, but there are things the Government can do to make the situation better, and there are things that the Government can do to make the situation worse. Labor’s industrial relations system is going to make the situation worse.
GILLON:
Senator Arbib, what’s your take on this? Does the Government have any evidence suggesting that the new IR laws add to the country’s unemployment woes?
ARBIB:
Well not that I have seen. And in terms of our IR laws, I mean I actually sit on the committee, and I have to say that the submissions that we are seeing, and also the Liberal Party Senators have been dealing with it in terms of the first stage of the hearings, 95% of the legislation is not being debated, its just gone through to the keeper, everyone seems happy with it. But over 5% there is a debate, and we’re in the middle, the Government has put forward a very, very balanced workplace relations system, providing flexibility to employers, but at the same time providing fairer working conditions and standards for workers. So I think we’ve found the balance and we’ve got it right and we don’t believe its going to have a negative effect on growth or employment. And in terms of Mitch, Mitch is being a bit too smart here and I do admit, admire his honesty in terms of the speech because at the time he did talk about the core principles, returning to the core principles that the Liberal Party have in relation to industrial relations, and that is Workchoices. And it is the same thing that Tony Abbott has said, it’s the same thing that Julie Bishop the shadow Treasurer has been saying, the Liberal Party is still committed to Workchoices, they’ve still got it in their back pocket and if they return to Government it will be the first thing that they bring out and at the moment it is the only plan that they have, the only plan they have for employment, to return to Workchoices.
FIFIELD:
Mark, let me tell you what I’m committed to. I’m committed to our industrial relations reforms of 1997. And you know how radical those reforms were? So radical that they had the support of Sheryl Kernot and the Australian Democrats, that’s what I’m committed to.
GILLON:
Ok, Senators, I think you’ve both made your points clearly on this issue, we do need to go to a very quick break, we’ll continue this discussion shortly.
BREAK
GILLON:
Welcome back to AM Agenda, joining me on our politicians’ panel this morning, Senator Mark Arbib in Sydney and Senator Mitch Fifield in Melbourne. Well there are reports today that the Governments’ working with the International Whaling Commission to come up with a deal to break the whaling deadlock with Japan. This proposal, outline today, would allow Japan to kill more Minke whale in its coastal waters and take more whales in the North Pacific. As a trade-off it would have to either agree to phase out scientific whaling in the Southern Ocean or impose an annual limit on its whaling haul.
Mark Arbib these reports today have prompted outrage from environmental groups and the opposition. Shouldn’t Australia be saying a blanket no to whaling? Isnt the Government opposed to all whaling programs, no matter whether it is in the Southern Ocean or the northern waters?
ARBIB:
That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right and that is our policy and that’s our position and that’s what we are putting forward at the International Whaling Commission. I mean our policy remains we are opposed to commercial whaling in any form, and we’re also opposed to the so called whaling for scientific purposes. You’ve got to look what’s actually happening at the IWC at the moment. They’ve set up a working committee to actually sit down and start discussing and negotiating a compromise or a settlement. In terms of the range of ideas that are being put forward, well you can imagine that they are coming from all different directions. There are now something like 33 different positions or recommendations that are being discussed and the chair of the committee is now putting forward a report which we think will come down sometime in March. Throughout this, throughout the negotiations, and going forward, Australia’s position remains opposition to commercial whaling and opposition to scientific whaling. And any result or any recommendations that come out, will, from Australia’s perspective, from the Government’s perspective, will hold those principles and that policy in place. And we have done a fair bit in terms of trying to reform the International Whaling Commission, making sure that it is more on the conservation side, and we’re proud of our record there. But certainly our policy remains in place.
GILLON:
So, Mark Arbib, let me get this perfectly clear, the Australian Government will not agree to any sort of deal proposed by the IWC that would allow Japan to do even more whaling in the Pacific?
ARBIB:
If it breaches our policy, which is total opposition to commercial whaling, and opposition, total opposition to whaling for scientific purposes, that’s right.
FIFIELD:
Ashley this situation has gone from the bizarre to the ridiculous. In opposition Labor was saying that the Government should send gun boats to intercept Japanese whaling vessels. We now see a situation where there are secret negotiations going on between the Government and the Japanese about giving them free reign in northern waters. This is really Peter Garrett as Pontius Pilate, washing his hands, saying ‘as long as the whaling is not happening in our backyard, as long as we can’t see it, as long as we don’t know about it, that’s ok with us.’ I think that is a truly bizarre and hypocritical approach.
ARBIB:
That’s just totally untrue, Mitch…
GILLON:
The Howard Government made hardly any progress on the issue of whaling when it was in Government, perhaps some compromise does need to be made, perhaps there does need to be some leeway in order to get Japan back negotiating, and have some action taken on this?
FIFIELD:
Well you’ve either got to stand by your principles or you don’t. If you’re opposed to whaling, you’re opposed to whaling. You don’t enter some clever deal which says as long as it’s not happening in our backyard, you can let it rip somewhere else. There’s no principle involved there, and this Government has got absolutely no consistency when it comes to the approach on whaling. They go from one extreme of complete belligerence, of wanting to send the Navy to intercept Japanese whaling vessels, and then they turn around and they become pussycats, saying well ‘stay out of our backyard and everything’s fine.’ There’s no consistency there and there’s no principle there. If you’re opposed to whaling you should say that, and that should be your position.
ARBIB:
Mitch, you’re Government had…
GILLON:
More than a year ago the Government threatened to take legal action against Japan’s whaling program. We haven’t seen that happen, is there some sort of deadline the Government has? When is the Government going to say ‘enough is enough, just talking isn’t working, we do actually need to take that step and take legal action?’
ARBIB:
I think you got it right a minute ago when you said there is always a chance to sit down and discuss these issues and try and come up with a resolution and that’s what’s taking place today at the IWC, in terms of this working group. So I think that it’s a positive step that they are actually sitting down trying to work the problem. And I mean I do want to raise back to something Mitch said, I mean the previous Government had 12 years to do something about this issue, 12 long years to do something, and we’ve done more in 12 months than they’ve done in 12 years.
FIFIELD:
What have you done in 12 months?
ARBIB:
We’ve appointed Sandy Holloway, we’ve appointed someone to actually go in there and negotiate and we’ve put forward money for our own scientific…
FIFIELD:
Oh, okay, you’ve appointed someone to a job…
ARBIB:
We’ve also put forward something like $32 million for scientific research ourselves in terms of this issue. And we are trying to reform the IWC to make it more conservation friendly and whale friendly, something that your Government failed to do and didn’t really care about as an issue. But I just want to…
FIFIELD:
Well Mark the clock is ticking, you’ve been in office for over a year…
ARBIB:
Just let me get it straight again, I just want to reaffirm, we have total opposition, total opposition to whaling for commercial reasons and also scientific reasons
GILLON:
Okay gentlemen we are running out of time, this is the first show of AM Agenda for 2009. Just to wrap up I’d like to get your views on the key challenges that we are going to be looking at for this year. I note that the most recent Newspoll show’s that on a two party preferred basis the Coalition starting to catch up to the Government. Mitch Fifield firstly to you, does this bode for a positive start to 2009?
FIFIELD:
I think we are extremely competitive, Malcolm’s doing a great job holding the Government to account. There are three big challenges this year. We want to see a Government that keeps the Australian economy growing, we want to see unemployment remain low and want to see the Budget stay in balance. It will be very interesting to see at the end of the year how the Government has fared on each of those three things.
GILLON:
Mark Arbib of course the economic crisis is a massive challenge for the Government, is it something that Kevin Rudd is up to?
ARBIB:
There’s no doubt that he’s up to it, its going to be an extremely difficult year for the Government, its going to be an extremely difficult year for working and non working Australians. I mean, we talk about the global recession, we talk about the challenges ahead but in the end what it really means is that more people are going to become unemployed, and it means that more people are going to suffer and that is something this Government is working around the clock to try and alleviate and try and avoid. We’re trying, we’re working to stimulate the economy, we’re working to stimulate jobs, that is the real challenge for the Government. At the same time as that though, we do have on the agenda some of the policies we committed to at the last election. We’re moving forward with the emissions trading scheme, something that the Coalition is completely divided on and something that really the climate sceptics have taken over in terms of the Coalition…
FIFIELD:
That’s rubbish.
ARBIB:
In terms of Industrial Relations, we’re getting rid of Workchoices, we’re throwing it out the door forever and just in terms, a quick contrast with, because I know time is running out, with us you know where we’re heading, we’ve got a plan and we’re moving forward. With the Coalition, they’re still debating what they should be doing. I mean at the Young Liberal conference you had Mitch saying we’ve should move to the right and other people saying we should move to the left….
FIFIELD:
You heard a very significant plan from Malcolm Turnbull in relation to the Green Carbon initiative.
ARBIB:
If you we’re a Young Liberal you’d be saying ‘What have I got myself into?’
GILLON:
That was meant to be a very quick wrap up, we have run out of time. Senator Mark Arbib and Senator Mitch Fifield, thank you for your time and for your insights. We look forward to talking to you throughout 2009 and be sure to join David Speers this afternoon at 4.15 Eastern Daylight Time, I’ll be back tomorrow morning.
I’m Ashleigh Gillion, thanks for your time.
ENDS