Transcript of
Senator Mitch Fifield
Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities, Carers and the Voluntary Sector
Sky News AM Agenda
Kieran Gilbert and Senator Mark Arbib
23 February 2009
8:30am
EO & E
Subjects: Appointments, John Hewson, Industrial Relations, ETS
KIERAN GILBERT:
Welcome back to AM Agenda and good morning to our panel, Labor Senator Mark Arbib and Liberal Senator Mitch Fifield. Gentlemen, great to see you both.
MITCH FIFIELD:
Good morning.
MARK ARBIB:
Good to be here.
GILBERT:
And congratulations, you both had a promotion in the last week. Mitch, first to you, do you think you’ve been given this on merit or just because you are a member of the right?
FIFIELD:
It’s on merit. I don’t think in terms of right or left in the Liberal Party. It is the Leader’s prerogative to pick the people he thinks will make the greatest contribution, and I am just very grateful to be given the opportunity.
GILBERT:
And Mark Arbib, there are stories today, Glenn Milne is reporting in the Australian that Kevin Rudd is trying to consolidate his power base and that you are one of the key architects, is that why you’ve got the promotion?
ARBIB:
I read that piece this morning, whoever the source is, is living in fantasy land. Similar to Mitch, hopefully I’ve got the position on merit. This is a very, very tough time for Governments, we’ve got an international crisis, and I hope to play a role. So it is a good time to be getting into Government because you really want to face challenges and we’ve got one at the moment.
GILBERT:
Before we go on to the Liberal troubles and there is a lot to talk about on that front, particularly in the last week I just want to ask you about one thing that Glenn Milne reports here, and that’s that “Arbib’s targets are: Joel Fitzgibbon, seen as closer to the Victorian Hard Left…due to his support of…Latham and Gillard.” Is there any truth to that, are you, there’s no shoring up of the right.
ARBIB:
Not at all, Joel is one of the best performing Minister’s that the Government has, he is a good friend of mine, he is a good friend of Kevin’s , and I think he is doing an outstanding job, so, whoever the source is, they are obviously playing games. They are not an MP, and are doing this from outside the parliament. So I think its just crazy.
GILBERT:
Ok, Mitch Fifield, we’ve seen some dramas in the Liberal Party over the last week, John Hewson took a swipe yesterday a former Liberal Leader at Peter Costello. You’re close to Mr Costello, is that damaging, to have a former Liberal leaders with those sorts of disparaging comments made?
FIFIELD:
When I think of John Hewson the word sad comes to mind. I think it is very sad that someone that was given the tremendous opportunity and privilege of leading the Liberal Party has done nothing but spit bile since he left that office. John Hewson isn’t a member of the Liberal Party any more. He’s been a failed politician. Failed Liberal leader. His post political life has been marked by failure and I think it says a lot about John Hewson that he released his letter of invective on the Day of National Mourning. I think that indicates John Hewson doesn’t know much about politics, and doesn’t know much about the Australian electorate.
GILBERT:
But these sorts of things are symptoms of a broader drama within the Liberal Party over the last week. Does Mr Costello need to say, state something clearly one way or the other? I mean, the fact that he continues to be on the backbench seems to continue to be a destabilising force for your leader Mr Turnbull.
FIFIELD:
I don’t think it is. Peter has been crystal clear. The day after the election, Peter indicated that he wasn’t available for the leadership. That was confirmed in the subsequent two leadership ballots, and that remains the case. Peter has been elected to a term in parliament. Once upon a time we used to have a go at people for causing by-elections. It would be sad if we had a crack at people for actually doing their job and honouring the trust of their electorate, and serving them.
GILBERT:
But do you think Peter Costello sorry Mark I will be with you in a tick do you think that Peter Costello was treated appropriately after Julie Bishop stood down, you know, with those reports that he was offered a front bench job? The fact that, that was made public was Costello treated fairly?
FIFIELD:
I think the best thing we can do for the Opposition, for the Party, and the best thing that we can do to support Malcolm keeping the focus on the Labor Party is to leave Peter alone. Peter is making a contribution in his own seat. All of us need to focus on the Labor Party. All of us need to keep reminding the public that Labor have got a $42 billion spending binge, which there is no guarantees will underpin and support the 90,000 jobs which Labor contend. That’s what we should be talking about and that’s what I’m going to be talking about.
GILBERT:
Ok Mark
ARBIB:
That’s the big problem with these guys, the Liberal Party is totally self-obsessed, I mean they spend all their time talking about jobs, the only issue is they are talking about their own jobs, they are talking about jobs in the Liberal Party, jobs in the National Party. The Government is focused on the national interest, dealing with the challenges of the global recession, dealing with the challenges of climate change, what the Liberal Party is more concerned about is: who controls the Liberal Party, who is the leader of the Liberal Party, will Peter Costello, won’t Peter Costello, the big date on the calendar, everyone should put on their calendar, is the preselection for Higgins. Then we’ll know whether Peter Costello is sitting tight, for a shot at the leadership, or whether he is going to retire, so that is an important date.
GILBERT:
So who do you think you will be facing at the next election?
ARBIB:
Well it doesn’t matter for us, because while the personalities change, the Liberal Party remains the same. They are so out of touch with Australians look at what Joe Hockey said in terms of Australians have never been richer, despite the global crisis look at what Tony Abbott was
FIFIELD:
No, no, no. Joe was saying, when you won office…
ARBIB:
Hang on a second Mitch. Look at what Tony Abbott says in terms of pensioners.
FIFIELD:
…Australia was in a good position.
ARBIB:
Not up to $35. Mitch himself. I mean Mitch has just been promoted, and I think he should have been promoted earlier but, Mitch is a poster boy for the Liberal Party.
FIFIELD:
Thanks Mark…
ARBIB:
Still supports Workchoices, climate change denial, and also wants to let the market rip. This is what the Liberal Party is about, this is why they are out of touch with Australians, and this is why they were thrown out at the last election. Nothing has changed.
FIFIELD:
Here endeth the sermon.
GILBERT:
Do you want to respond to that?
ARBIB:
It’s the truth, it’s the truth!
GILBERT:
The Workchoices, the climate change, I mean have you guys moved on
FIFIELD:
I didn’t know I was a climate change sceptic, so that’s…
ARBIB:
Ok, climate change denier, climate change denier…
FIFIELD:
That’s something that I’ve learnt today, thanks for that Mark. But Mark mentioned Workchoices, industrial relations. We want to see jobs supported, it seems peverse to me that at a time when the Government is predicting that jobs are going to be lost in the economy that they’re looking at an industrial relations policy, industrial relations legislation, which they know will cost jobs. I don’t understand why you would do that. You are introducing the stimulus package to try and underpin 90,000 jobs, at the same time as looking at an industrial relations policy that will cost jobs.
GILBERT:
The challenge for you there Mitch, I mean obviously they won the last election, on a campaign, centred on workplace policy, so how far does the Liberal Party, the Coalition, go? I mean are you willing to have another fight on that?
FIFIELD:
We should certainly fight on those things which the Government are intending to do, which are beyond what they took to the last election such as right of entry issues, such as the right of unions to inspect the records of employees who are not union members. We’d be crazy not to tackle those things. Those things are not going to help business employ anyone.
ARBIB:
It was only a couple of months ago that Mitch gave a speech…
GILBERT:
That’s true though Mark that the Government is overstepping what it took to the election, on a number of fronts, I mean Heather Ridout, last week…
FIFIELD:
Absolutely.
GILBERT:
…one of the closest advisers to the Government, has said that the Government has gone way beyond what it told the Australian people it would.
ARBIB:
No, not at all. I mean we have provided an industrial relations system, well we are proposing industrial relations system, that provides balance. That’s what we are about, a balance. Finding a mid-point so that employees fair work practises, and employers have flexibility, and I think we’ve found that. And if you look at the actual Senate committee, there’s been two differing views, some in the union movement say we haven’t gone far enough, some in the employers say we’ve gone too far well I think we are right in the mid-point and it’s a fair system. In terms of coming back to what Mitch said though, theres only been about 6-8 weeks since Mitch addressed the Young Liberals conference and said, on industrial relations, we should stay loyal to our core beliefs and ideals. And that means Workchoices.
FIFIELD:
Not at all, not at all.
ARBIB:
That means going back to individual contracts, and its not just Mitch that says it, Tony Abbott said something very, very similar and also Julie Bishop.
GILBERT:
Alright let’s move to another issue that’s probably going to feature prominently this week and that is emissions trading. Malcolm Turnbull now, Mark Arbib, is flagging a higher target, of advocating a higher target. Now he will probably have a lot of support on the left, in relation to that of course, the Government has only set a target of 5-15% by 2020, it’s a low, low target. Do you think you could be outmanoeuvred to the left by Turnbull on that? That he’s not vacating climate change as a political battleground.
ARBIB:
Well Malcolm Turnbull is playing politics with climate change, there is no doubt about it, he’s playing politics with the emissions trading scheme. This is all because Malcolm Turnbull can’t control his own caucus.
FIFIELD:
What do you call dumping your own inquiry?
ARBIB:
His caucus is full of climate change deniers, climate change sceptics, and this is a way for him to deal with the issue of an emissions trading scheme without having to confront it. On climate change, look at the facts. One minute Malcolm Turnbull is supporting an emissions trading scheme, the next minute, he is not. One minute, the Liberals are supporting a carbon tax, the next minute, they are not. One minute they are saying that the targets are too high, the next minute they are saying they are too low then they are too high again. I mean who knows where they stand on climate change, they are all over the place. And they are all over the place because they don’t actually believe in it. They had 12 years to do something about climate change, but they spent more on Government advertising than they did on climate change.
GILBERT:
Ok, before I come to Mitch Fifield, I want to put to you though, they are not the only ones who are critical of your CPRS model, on the left, on the right, business, green groups, there is a growing perception it seems that the model is flawed.
ARBIB:
And we make no apology in terms of getting attacked from the left, getting attacked from the right, because we are in the middle. We are doing the responsible thing, what’s in national interest. Not in sectional interests, in the national interest. This is not an easy decision for the Government to make, it’s a very, very tough decision, and it is a huge reform. We are providing a balance, we are tackling the issue of climate change, tackling the issue of global warming, but at the same time being responsible, ensuring that Australia maintains industry, maintains jobs. And we don’t lose businesses offshore. And that’s what the Government is about.
GILBERT:
So you think maybe a dry run, in that sense of the national interest, a dry run, maybe a couple of years before the emissions trading scheme kicks in, is that something the Government would consider?
ARBIB:
The most important thing is to get it through the Senate. And get it up and running.
FIFIELD:
No, the most important thing is to get it right.
ARBIB:
We need to get it through so we can start meeting our global obligations.
GILBERT:
Alright, Mitch that comes to you then, will the Coalition have the gumption to back, to block this in the upper house?
FIFIELD:
Well we haven’t seen the legislation. We’ve got to see that first, but what I will say is that this Government sees the ETS as an end in itself. Surely the important thing is what an ETS actually achieves. Now we want to see a reduction in carbon emissions. We don’t see the ETS as the be all and end all. We see it as part of the puzzle. The other issues like biosequestration, reforestation, energy efficient buildings, establishing new and better coal fired power-stations they’re also part of the answer. The important thing is to get the ETS right. We haven’t seen the detail yet. This Government sees the ETS as an end in itself. Before, the sign of environmental virtue was Kyoto. This Government now says that its ETS model, and only its ETS model, is the sign of environmental virtue. We don’t think that is right. It is important to get it right.
GILBERT:
Mark Arbib made the point, I think it is a fair one, in the sense that you, within your party, you’ve got a number of people who are sceptical about the issue, like IR, there are differing views and quite disparate views that Mr Turnbull has got to bring together can he do that?
FIFIELD:
Sure, there are a range of views but one thing we all agree upon is that if you can reduce emissions by more than the Government proposes, and do it at a lower cost to the economy, then why wouldn’t you do that? This Government won’t look at any alternatives even if the alternatives will reduce emissions by more, and be at a lower cost to the economy. I don’t understand why the Government won’t look at that. We thought that they were starting to think along those lines when they were looking at establishing a House Economics Committee inquiry. They ran away from that at a million miles an hour. We’re looking at having a Senate inquiry with similar terms of reference, we actually already have a Senate inquiry underway at the moment, been going for 5 months, looking at fuel and energy and looking at the ETS in particular. So we already have that forum. This Government is just obsessed with their model of an ETS, refuse to look at alternatives. We want to look at alternatives.
GILBERT:
Ok, Mark Arbib if it is knocked back twice, I mean you are saying get it through the Senate, but if it isn’t, if you don’t achieve that with the Greens and with the Coalition we are nearly out of time but just in a minute or less I mean could this be a trigger for a double-d, a double dissolution?
ARBIB:
No one is thinking that far ahead our job at the moment is to do everything we can to get the Emissions Trading Scheme through the Senate. But in the end just coming back to something Mitch said, it’s not just for us the Emissions Trading Scheme, though. We are also focused on renewables, I mean the Government is spending $500 million right now, over 18 months, to get renewables into the field, solar, geo-thermal and wind. We’re also looking at carbo-capture, it goes on and on and on. But Emissions Trading Scheme the real question will be will the Liberals put it in the bin or will they actually do something once in the national interest and support it.
FIFIELD:
Give us your legislation.
ARBIB:
Well you’ve got the whitepaper. Why don’t you start reading that?
FIFIELD:
We have.
GILBERT:
Alright gentlemen, we are out of time, good to see you both. Senator Fifield, Senator Arbib.
FIFIELD:
Cheers
ARBIB:
Cheers
GILBERT:
That’s all for this edition of the program, I’m Kieran Gilbert, thanks for your company.
ENDS