21 November, 2011
Sky News – AM Agenda
Kieran Gilbert and Andrew Leigh MP
21 November 2011
8:40am
E & OE
Subjects: Mining tax, Qantas industrial dispute, the Fair Work Act, Afghanistan
KIERAN GILBERT:
Welcome back to the program. With me now, Liberal frontbencher Senator Mitch Fifield and Labor MP Andrew Leigh. Gentlemen, good morning to you both. Senator Fifield, on the mining tax, apparently a growing number in the Coalition want to allow the tax through. What do you say to that?
MITCH FIFIELD:
That’s news to me, Kieran. I haven’t heard a single Coalition colleague express that view. What I’ve heard, in fact, has been a chorus of opposition from my colleagues, because they understand the damage that the mining tax will do to the resource-rich states. They know the damage that it will do to employment. The Coalition is as one. It’s a bad tax. It shouldn’t be legislated, and if it is, we will repeal it.
GILBERT:
What about the argument that’s been reported in the Herald today – that a number of the MPs are worried about how you’re going to fund your promises, including the superannuation guarantee increase? They see this as a good way to pursue that.
FIFIELD:
We pursue legislation on the basis of whether it’s good policy; whether it’s going to be good for jobs, whether it’s going to be good for the economy. Various pieces of legislation have different effects on the budget bottom line, and at the next election we will release our policies, fully costed, there for everyone to see.
GILBERT:
You’ve heard Senator Fifield, Andrew Leigh, and the Minister remains hopeful that the Government will get the mining tax through, but there’s no guarantee. This would be a bad way to finish the year, wouldn’t it? If you got defeated on this, or at least you had to defer a vote on it?
LEIGH:
Kieran, I’ll leave the politics to others, but in terms of the substance, this is absolutely first-rate reform. Let’s be clear about what we’re doing here we’re moving from a royalty regime to a profits-based regime. That’s what we did with the PRRT with Bass Strait in the late 1980s, and that’s seen a boom in that sector. When we had the Henry tax review, the Minerals Council of Australia actually brought a submission saying ‘why don’t you move from royalties, which are inefficient, to a profits-based tax, which is more efficient.’ It’s standard textbook economics. We’re doing that, and the revenue will go to support superannuation, to cut taxes on small businesses, and to build infrastructure particularly in the mining states. So you can see why many Coalition backbenchers, faced with this $70 billion black hole in their costings…
FIFIELD:
That’s rubbish. That’s not true.
LEIGH:
…must be saying to themselves at the moment, ‘do we really have to say no one more time, Mr Abbott? Couldn’t we just for once support a good piece of economic policy?’
GILBERT:
Can you see why of the independents, though, Andrew Wilkie particularly, has been arguing for an increase in the threshold that defines a super profit, so that it doesn’t hit the smaller miners? Or at least expand the production size of the mines so you’re sure that you’re hitting the bigger miners?
LEIGH:
Kieran, let’s be clear about what small means here. You don’t pay this tax unless you make $50 million in profit. So this is a tax which applies to people who are making very substantial profits. That’s exactly the way it’s designed to operate. It’s designed to ensure that if you’re in the exploration phase, if you’re still putting in big capital investments, then you’re not paying taxes. That’s not the way royalties work. Royalties are very inefficient, royalties actually disproportionately hurt small miners. Moving to a profits-based tax is good for the sector overall, particularly for smaller miners. $50 million threshold I don’t think anyone should be crying poor.
GILBERT:
On the issue of Qantas, Andrew Leigh first to you. The TWU are threatening strike action internationally through support of the Teamsters and Unite in the United Kingdom. This could really explode, couldn’t it, if there isn’t some sort of compromise done here? And it looks like they’re nowhere near it.
LEIGH:
Kieran, as Minister Albanese said, this is a matter for the parties to get around the table today and get this done. They have that opportunity, and it’s important for the travelling public that we get this sorted out. That’s up to the union, and Qantas, to talk things out.
GILBERT:
But they’re not doing that, as you know.
LEIGH:
Well, the discussions are confidential, so frankly I don’t know what’s going on in that room. This is very much a matter for those parties. I don’t think that government should be intervening, trying to micromanage these sorts of things. It’s a matter for the union and Qantas to sort it out so we can move on.
GILBERT:
Senator Fifield, there are calls for the Productivity Commission to be called in to look at the Fair Work Act. Would you support that?
FIFIELD:
The Government have committed to a review of the Fair Work Act. We’ve been arguing that that review should happen sooner. I think any body that’s credible, that can take a look at the Fair Work Act, that can see if there are practical problems affecting real life businesses and real life employees, that’s not a bad thing. We’ve said, time and again, it’s important to allow this legislation some time to work out. We recognise that WorkChoices is dead. The Government introduced the Fair Work Act, and I think we’re starting to see that there are some real problems with this legislation.
GILBERT:
Is it now time for Tony Abbott to grab the mantle on this and to come up with an alternative? Because at the moment you don’t have one.
FIFIELD:
We will have a policy at the next election. It’s not going to be ideologically-based. It’s going to be focussed on having practical solutions to practical problems. The Government promised that all would be great, that employers and employees would be in an industrial nirvana under the Fair Work legislation. It’s clear that that’s not the case.
GILBERT:
That’s a fair assessment, particularly with no deal done at this point. If this does linger on, if this does see a renewal of industrial action at some point if the unions are successful in their legal appeal, that would not be a good look. There’s a school of thought that thinks that the Government has actually benefited from the industrial dispute because it’s got the debate on IR, but if it goes any longer, people’s patience will wear out, won’t it?
LEIGH:
Kieran I don’t think it’s good for anyone when planes are grounded as we saw during the Qantas action there. But I do think that it’s interesting that Mitch is leaving the door open to some of these changes in the industrial relations laws. We’ve seen for example John Alexander…
GILBERT:
So you think the Fair Work Act is perfect as it is, and shouldn’t be changed?
LEIGH:
I think it struck a good balance between employers and employees…
GILBERT:
So just leave it as is, no amendments?
LEIGH:
I certainly wouldn’t support, for example, what John Alexander is calling for, which is big scaling back on penalty rates. Seeing big pay cuts for some of Australia’s lowest-paid workers. Working night-shifts and weekends, they’re the sort of things…
GILBERT:
But why does Labor go straight to a scare campaign…
LEIGH:
This isn’t a scare campaign!
GILBERT:
… instead of looking at a piece of legislation and judging it on its merits?
LEIGH:
Kieran I am looking at the piece of legislation, and I’m listening to what Coalition backbenchers are saying they want. And they’re talking about things like winding back penalty rates. It is very clear that if a Coalition government is elected, that there will be big changes in industrial relations. We know there’ll be 12,000 public servants who’ll be gotten rid of, so that will have a big impact on places like Canberra, Darwin, Townsville where all of these jobs are centred. There’s big impacts on people’s living standards. Mitch talked before about jobs and the economy being critical, and both of those will go backwards under the extreme industrial relations regime from the Coalition.
FIFIELD:
That ain’t going to happen.
GILBERT:
Let’s move onto one other issue before we wrap up. There’s going to be a statement to Parliament on Afghanistan. Brigadier-General Mohammed Zafar Khan, who is the commander of Afghan forces in Tarin Kowt, says three years is too much time for the Australians to stay there. All they need is the appropriate equipment, is essentially what he argued for, and the troops could leave now. And former Foreign Minister Downer believes that this is dragging on, that we’re entering into mission-creep here, and that the job has essentially been done. Is it time to re-look at this?
FIFIELD:
The Brigadier-General is clearly an important figure in the Afghan military. But these decisions are ultimately taken by the civilian power, and will be taken by the Government of Afghanistan, and will be taken by the Government of Australia, which is as it should be. We’ve made it clear that we will stay the course. What the course is, is ultimately something that is negotiated between the two governments on the advice of the military officials.
GILBERT:
Andrew Leigh, your thoughts on that? It’s certainly not the sort of message that’s in keeping with what we’ve heard from our commanders and our governments that the Afghan military needs a few more years to build up their capacity.
LEIGH:
That’s right Kieran and I think that’s the point. There’s going to be a variety of views on strategy in Afghanistan, but certainly the advice that we have from the Minister, from the Chief of the Defence Force, is very clear that the course we’re on is appropriate, that the training we’re doing is the right training to set Afghanistan up to a stage where it’s able to look after itself secure its borders, make sure that we get that critical safe space for democracy.
GILBERT:
But given what we’ve seen in the last few months, with ANA soldiers turning their guns on Australian diggers on a number of occasions, to hear this from the Commander must make a lot of people think, ‘why are we there?’
LEIGH:
Kieran I think that incident is shocking for all of us to see the Australians who have been killed in that way. But it’s important that we don’t then immediately jump to the other extreme and say that every Afghan soldier is untrustworthy. Our soldiers have been back out, doing armed patrols with Afghan soldiers. That’s absolutely critical if we’re to train them to create that safe space in which girls can go to school, in which Afghanistan can continue to develop. This is a very poor country, but it’s also a country which has been a staging post for attacks like September-11 and Bali. It’s absolutely critical that that never happens again.
GILBERT:
That’s where we’ll wrap up the discussion. Senator Fifield, congratulations to you on your new addition.
LEIGH:
Congratulations Mitch.
FIFIELD:
Thank you Kieran. Thank you Andrew.
GILBERT:
Great news. Thank you both for the chat this morning. That’s all for AM Agenda. I’m Kieran Gilbert, we’ll see you next time.
ENDS