with Clinton Maynard and Suzy Yates
11 April 2015
9:20am
E & OE
Subjects: Business Services Wage Assessment Tool (BSWAT), Australian Disability Enterprises
YATES:
We all expect decent pay for the work we do, that goes without saying. For some people, going to work each day is about more than a pay check. It’s about feeling like you’re part of something. And it’s the opportunity to learn new skills and a reason to get out of bed each day. Now a debate has been ongoing about a new wage scheme being introduced by the federal Government for intellectually disabled workers who are employed in Australian Disability Enterprises. Now some of the enterprises involved provide employment in sheltered workshops, and they barely break even. And increased wages could mean that they have to close the workshop operations. Joining us online is the Assistant Minister for Social Services, Mitch Fifield. And he has been really at the fore of this campaign. Good morning Senator, thanks for joining us.
FIFIELD:
Good to be with you Suzy.
YATES:
Can you tell us a little bit about how this situation has come about? It was on the back of a court case, wasn’t it?
FIFIELD:
That’s right. There are about 200 organisations around the country called Australian Disability Enterprises, and they employ about 20,000 people, most of whom have some form of intellectual impairment. And it’s an environment where you have a job, but you have some really good intensive support. And for some of these people, the fact is if not for these enterprises, they would be unlikely to be in employment.
In 2012, there was a case which was taken to the Federal Court, which found that a pro-rata wage assessment tool called the BSWAT, or the Business Services Wage Assessment Tool, had been incorrectly applied to two individuals that there had been indirect discrimination. Now that only related to those two individuals. But because of the uncertainty that that case created about this wage assessment tool, we as a government said, ‘look, there’s been a certain loss of confidence in this tool, we want to work and see if we can find a new wage assessment tool that has broaderer support.’ But at the same time we also said that we were going to do two things.
One, we set aside $173 million to help support the creation of a new wage assessment tool, but also to assist organisations with the additional wage costs that would likely see. But we also did something else, and that was to say that anyone who had felt that they had suffered an economic loss in the past, we wanted to set up a payment scheme, where there would be a simple formula, they could make application and receive a payment for that.
YATES:
Did many people come forward for that?
FIFIELD:
Well we’ve struck a hurdle. And that is it requires legislation to give effect to this payment scheme to deal with past issues. And the Australian Labor Party and the Greens have prevented us from legislating that scheme.
YATES:
So everybody is in limbo at the moment.
FIFIELD:
That’s right. Everyone’s in limbo about what happened in the past. What we’re wanting to do is to provide certainty for Disability Enterprises. To say we’ve got an arrangement to sort out what happened in the past, but also we’ve got a plan for how to move to a wage assessment tool for the future, that people feel is a bit fairer and has broader support.
Now you’re right, there’s great concern amongst Disability Enterprises that if we don’t get this new wage assessment tool right, that there will then be wage costs which are prohibitive, and mean that some Disability Enterprises would need to shut down and that’s exactly what I don’t want to happen.
YATES:
Well see the debate around that, you’ve got to balance that between fairness, but also quality of life. And for many of these people and in the old days we used to call them sheltered workshops for many of these people it’s not about the money.
MAYNARD:
It’s about the work. It’s about being gainfully engaged.
YATES:
That’s right. It’s about having somewhere to go every day. It’s about meeting people. And it’s about feeling valued. And you can’t put a price on that.
FIFIELD:
No you can’t. It’s one of the reasons why I get a bit frustrated when some advocates seek to separate out the hourly rate that individuals in Disability Enterprises are paid, because that doesn’t tell the true story. The individual gets the hourly rate for the work that they do. They also get the Disability Support Pension. They also get the health benefits card. They also get the support of disability staff onsite, and we put about $220 million a year towards those individuals. But they get the dignity of work. They get friends. They get a social life. So it’s really a package of supports that we as a community provide for these individuals. So it’s really wrong, I think, just to separate out that hourly rate.
YATES:
Because there was, in that case for those two workers, they worked out the hourly rate of $4.48 an hour…
MAYNARD:
Which appears to be so alarming, if you just read that somebody’s being paid $4.48 an hour, and didn’t take into consideration Senator what you’ve just explained, it would look very alarming.
FIFIELD:
Exactly. You’ve got to look at the whole package that individuals are given. And look, my view is that there’s no place for ideology when it comes to employment of people with disabilities. We need to have a continuum of employment options, from supported employment in disability enterprises, through to work in the open workforce with a bit of support where it’s needed. Unfortunately, there are some people, for ideological reasons, who don’t think that Disability Enterprises should exist. I think that there’s an important place for them, and I will always be a big defender of them.
YATES:
I can see both sides. But my concern is, if these places close, where will the workers go? Where will they go to get the same sort of support that they get every day? There’s people who have buses come and pick them up to take them to work. Where will they go and what will they do?
FIFIELD:
That’s right. You’re talking about 20,000 Australians who have employment through these enterprises. And for them, it is more than a job. I mean, for every one of us, we tend to develop most of our friendships, we tend to develop a big part of our self worth through the work that we do. So I will always be a big defender of these workplaces. And it’s one of the favourite parts of my job is visiting Disability Enterprises and meeting the supported employees. And I’ve got to tell you, some of the biggest supporters of Disability Enterprises are the families and the parents.
YATES:
Well because they can see what a difference it makes to their child. Many of these they were once children but many of them now in 30s, 40s, 50s and even 60s, and are making a valuable contribution to society. And without that sort of place they wouldn’t be able to do that.
FIFIELD:
And you can’t put a price on the experience for an individual, when someone asks them, ‘what do you do?’ And they’re able to say, ‘well, I work at …”.
MAYNARD:
Senator, what do parents, I’m assuming there’s a parents group, a group that represents for carers, parents of disabled people. What’s their position on it essentially?
FIFIELD:
There are a number of groups that represent parents. There’s Carers Australia. There are parent organisations which tend to be based at the enterprise level. Overwhelmingly, the parents want Disability Enterprises to be supported. Overwhelmingly, parents want the legislation that I have before the Senate to provide a payment scheme to deal with the past. They want that legislation put through. Because the Disability Enterprises want to know that that side of things is sorted.
At the moment, Maurice Blackburn have a representative action to deal with those past issues. People are perfectly entitled to pursue their legal rights through that. But what we’re wanting to do is to offer an alternative. People can take their pick. You can be part of a legal action. And as you know, there’s no certainty to where legal actions will lead. Or, you can be part of our certain and streamlined scheme that will mean that Disability Enterprises and their supported employees know that the situation is sorted.
YATES:
Thank you. Great to have you on the programme this morning. And we will follow that, and let’s hope that the right decision is made.
FIFIELD:
Terrific, good to chat.
YATES:
That’s Senator Mitch Fifield, and he’s the Assistant Minister for Social Services.
ENDS
Media contact:
Lydia Paterson | 0409 792 081 | lydia.paterson@dss.gov.au